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Post by jackorion on Jul 29, 2019 16:45:10 GMT
Hi all, Just got my guitar back from the workshop where I've had a DPA 4061 wired onto the ring terminal of the K&K in my Martin for use in a dual source system. I've read about this combo on the AGF where Doug Young sings it's praises and I've been keeping an eye out for a cheap DPA on eBay and managed to snag one for £70 the other day. The DPA is wired directly onto the ring terminal of the existing output jack so no extra mods and I can power it from my Felix preamp. Here's where I have it placed currently: IMG_0621 by Ben Morgan-Brown, on Flickr and here's a link to some soundcloud tracks: Blend 'Dry' K&K Alone: DPA Alone: Blend with a HPf at 80 and a touch of Reverb: I've only played at home for the last hour with this but I think it sounds pretty good, and is an improvement over the K&K alone - it sounds good through my AER as well so I'm excited to see how it works at gigs through a proper PA. Here's how I've got my Felix set: IMG_0620 by Ben Morgan-Brown, on Flickr Channel 1 is the DPA with a HPF at about 200-300 and Channel 2 is the K&K with a notch at 100 - the mix is about 60/40 in favour of the k&k. Let me know what you think...
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 29, 2019 21:47:44 GMT
Have t listened to the files yet but it looks a very good set up!
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 29, 2019 22:04:16 GMT
Even on my laptop speakers the blend sounded nicer than the K&K alone. I think you're onto something there Ben! Hope you'll let us know how you find it playing "out". Keith
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Post by lavaman on Jul 30, 2019 8:06:03 GMT
I listened to the sound clips on my studio monitors. The dry blend sounds superb, combining the warmth of the K&K with the air of the mic. Not too keen on the blend with reverb though, it sounds a little 'smeary' to me. Iain
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Post by jackorion on Jul 30, 2019 9:28:23 GMT
Here's another blend with slightly different EQ on the Felix: This time I'm using the HPF rather than the notch on the Felix and cutting a bit of bass out of the K&K signal and leaving a bit more mids in the DPA signal...
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Post by jackorion on Jul 30, 2019 9:30:07 GMT
I listened to the sound clips on my studio monitors. The dry blend sounds superb, combining the warmth of the K&K with the air of the mic. Not too keen on the blend with reverb though, it sounds a little 'smeary' to me. Iain Yeah I listened back to it and didn't like the reverb so much - it's only a tiny amount but it does lose a bit of clarity... But in the context of a vocal and guitar mix live a tiny splash of reverb on both vocal and guitar blends them a little bit I find... But it's a fine line between just enough and too much (and often the soundperson goes for too much!)
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 3, 2019 11:38:46 GMT
Good idea Ben! A blend when the two signals pick up different parts of the sound best can certainly produce a better result. Well worth trying and a good idea. Seems like it's working for you. I've always found a blend of internal microphone and piezo a huge improvement on the piezo. Admittedly a K&K is way better than a bog standard piezo, but I believe the principle still applies. Plus, like a dual microphone Omni and Cardioid combo for me brings out a guitars full sound so much better than either microphone individually. It's so difficult recording a sound that truly sound like the guitar being played. Mark Mark
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Post by jackorion on Aug 3, 2019 16:40:24 GMT
Well I've played a couple of gigs with this setup now - only restaurant gigs through my AER Compact 60 so not had a chance to hear it through a big PA yet.
So far so good - I definitely feel that the trebles are improved over the K&K alone and also the mids - I tend to scoop a fair chunk of mids out of the K&K as I find it can be a bit honky sounding, but by leaving the mids flatter in the DPA Mic I'm bringing in a little mids without getting that honk sound.
I actually snapped up another DPA on eBay the other day for a good price and I'm going to have that put in my Collings next week - it will mean a bit of tweaking when swapping between guitars (the K&K is a bit lower in output in the Collings than the Martin for some reason) which will take me a little while to get the hang of (at the moment I use separate channels for the two guitars on the Felix so I can balance out the volume difference, but I'm sure I'll get the hand of the setting changes pretty quickly.
I have a gig at Purbeck Valley Folk Fest in a couple of weeks which will be the first time I'll get to hear it through a proper PA so that should be interesting...
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Post by jackorion on Sept 4, 2019 9:08:24 GMT
I thought I'd check back in on this thread with an update after a few gigs (including ones through some decent, and not so decent PAs).
To cut a long story short - I'm REALLY happy with this - the guitar sounds great through every system I've played through and, so far, no feedback issues. I've had lots of compliments from other players and I feel like the mic has added that tiny bit of 'realness' that the K&K was missing, which just takes the edge of the trebles and upper mids whilst keeping the fat low end and body in the top that I've come to appreciate from the K&K.
I'm now notching out at about 200hz rather than 100hz and that gives me a bit more low end thump but still controls the feedback
I had the other mic fitted to my Collings OM2hT - strangely the output in that guitar is significantly lower than in the Martin, but almost by exactly the same amount as the K&K is quieter so that actually works out quite well as I can just hit the boost button on my Felix when swapping between guitars and otherwise keep everything the same.
The Martin does come across as 'thicker' sounding than the Collings through the PA and sometimes switching between can be a little bit of a shock, but it more or less represents the difference between those guitars acoustically (minus the output difference) in that the Martin is beefier and looser sounding anyway whereas the Collings has more crispness.
Although in some respects it seems a complicated setup, it's actually dead simple to plug in and now batteries in my guitar (which is good) - the Felix is really the key ingredient in the mix, the flexibility and power of the EQ means I can really dial this in quickly and having the ability to mix the pickups internally and send one line to the desk makes everything really streamlined - I was concerned about the cost of the Felix when I bought it but, a year on, it's become a lifesaver at so many gigs and just sounds great.
Anyway, hopefully things will remain this rosy but, for the time being, I'm as chuffed with my plugged in tone as I've ever been and it gives me such a confidence on stage to hear my guitars sounding so good!
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Post by jackorion on Sept 4, 2019 9:09:56 GMT
p.s. I'll record some more samples and put them up somewhere - I decided to take the old ones off my soundcloud as I'm applying for festivals for next summer and a lot of them want your soundcloud page as an example of your music and these kept coming up at the top of the page!
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Post by jackorion on Sept 11, 2019 11:17:00 GMT
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