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Post by curmudgeon on Sept 19, 2019 19:28:15 GMT
I spent a week with Darrell Scott some years ago at Sorefingers. Like with other tutors it was great fun but I didn't actually learn anything aprt from "never let the truth get in the way of a good tale!" Somewhere I've got a recording of my singing my "Dad song" with Darrell accompanying me.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 20, 2019 7:45:29 GMT
I spent a week with Darrell Scott some years ago at Sorefingers. Like with other tutors it was great fun but I didn't actually learn anything aprt from "never let the truth get in the way of a good tale!" Somewhere I've got a recording of my singing my "Dad song" with Darrell accompanying me. I'd love to spend a week with Darrell but even more I'd like to actually get to see him in concert!
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Post by dawkins on Sept 23, 2019 8:08:05 GMT
I went to a course with Boo Hewerdine. He also does a course with Chris Difford so I suspect it’s similar in content other than the length of the course.
Boo is an absolutely wonderful guy and he has a philosophy that songs can be written about any subject. On the course he generally sets you up to work with another person and challenges you to simply write and get things done. The course is not theoretical in the sense that he doesn’t talk about using literary devices such as metaphors, similes etc etc but it rather takes the approach of sitting down and writing. He is very much in the camp of writing with everyday language, or at least that’s how I saw it.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 23, 2019 11:55:54 GMT
I went to a course with Boo Hewerdine. He also does a course with Chris Difford so I suspect it’s similar in content other than the length of the course. Boo is an absolutely wonderful guy and he has a philosophy that songs can be written about any subject. On the course he generally sets you up to work with another person and challenges you to simply write and get things done. The course is not theoretical in the sense that he doesn’t talk about using literary devices such as metaphors, similes etc etc but it rather takes the approach of sitting down and writing. He is very much in the camp of writing with everyday language, or at least that’s how I saw it. I think writing with another person is an experience and discipline that is worth having. I tend to work alone with my ideas but whenever I have collaborated i've enjoyed the experience and also have enjoyed the result. At the end of the day songwriting is a somewhat weird affair. First you need something to say and then you have to work out how to say it in a way that both works and can appeal to others. I often compare it to self inflicted torture. But like anything else, it is always worth picking up tips from others.
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Post by bellyshere on Sept 23, 2019 12:33:22 GMT
All the workshops I have seen aren’t cheap though.
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Post by martinrowe on Sept 23, 2019 13:00:08 GMT
Have you tried writing down e.g. Townes Van Zandt's lyrics and analysing them to see how he did it - sort of picking them apart. e.g. '...and I know where this crooked path is taking me'. That method would be similar to Dylan and the folk process as well. His early songs were re-writes of old songs weren't they? You wouldn't need to spend any money either. What is it again - 99% hard work and 1% inspiration - in that order?
I always remember an interview with John Prine where he said that he treated it as a job i.e. he sat down in the morning for 5 hours most days and (I think) discarded about 95% of what he'd written. He approached the process as a 'proper' writer would. I like that idea - in that way it's similar to playing music i.e. it takes a lot of practice.
That's my tuppence worth, hope it sparks something. Just sharing information and ideas really. That's what this place is for, isn't it.
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Post by bellyshere on Sept 23, 2019 13:04:12 GMT
I’ve got books of old tunes I have done and have had some success rewriting old songs. I’ve also tried sitting down for hours trying to force it. That didn’t work.
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Post by martinrowe on Sept 23, 2019 13:12:05 GMT
hmmm, I thought I had a good answer there - dunno
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Post by bellyshere on Sept 23, 2019 13:16:07 GMT
hmmm, I thought I had a good answer there - dunno It is a good answer and like I said I have had some success rewriting songs. Most of my songs are happy accidents whilst noodling on my guitar. I have tried looking deeper into other people’s songs but just ended copying them sort of.
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Post by dawkins on Sept 23, 2019 13:32:00 GMT
My favourite singer songwriter of recent times is Ryan Adams. From what I hear he claims that getting your backside down on a chair and writing is the only way to get good songs out. In other words it’s sheer graft. I have followed an excellent podcast called Sodajerker where two guys from Liverpool interview songwriters of all genres with some big names amongst their guest list. It really does become apparent that songwriting is hard to explain as a process and most of them can’t fully articulate how they do it regardless of musical knowledge. In fact many claim that it’s beneficial to sometimes write on an unfamiliar instrument.
On the other hand there are loads of books on the subject but for me they are in the main too complex to be of practical use.
In the end it appears to be the case that successful songwriting is much like developing any other skill: it’s a lot of perspiration.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 23, 2019 20:45:26 GMT
I can’t do that sitting down job thing, well not until I have enough of a structure in my head.
I currently have a song I’m working on. It came from a guitar piece that gave me a chorus (about 3 months ago). I then decided on a story. I now have two verses a chorus and the beginnings of verse 3 and I know where I am going. It might get finished at the table but so far most of the work has been done in My head!
I’ve recently finished one that has taken three years to complete. I’m singing it now and I can’t really understand why it took so long.
Others come in 5 minutes.
I have no idea why they work in different ways.
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,340
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 23, 2019 21:15:28 GMT
I’ve recently finished one that has taken three years to complete. <Does not compute>
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Post by bleatoid on Sept 23, 2019 22:42:50 GMT
I’ve also tried sitting down for hours trying to force it. That didn’t work. Didn't work for Elvis either. But more seriously, what improvements or insights are you looking to get from a songwriting course bellyshere ? I think your songs are some of the most innovative, distinctive and enjoyable I've heard recently - structure / story / lyrics / melody / vocals / composition / whatever else there is to a song....all top notch. Where is the problem - is it just inspiration?
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Post by bellyshere on Sept 23, 2019 22:45:34 GMT
I’ve also tried sitting down for hours trying to force it. That didn’t work. Didn't work for Elvis either. But more seriously, what improvements or insights are you looking to get from a songwriting course bellyshere ? I think your songs are some of the most innovative, distinctive and enjoyable I've heard recently - structure / story / lyrics / melody / vocals / composition / whatever else there is to a song....all top notch. Where is the problem - is it just inspiration? Thanks for the praise man. I just want to try and not sound the same all the time. Get better I suppose.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 24, 2019 9:15:21 GMT
I’ve recently finished one that has taken three years to complete. <Does not compute> A bit like the songs :-)
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