|
Post by andyhowell on Sept 27, 2019 13:23:09 GMT
It must be said, Chris’s live guitar tone is terrible... After all these years he can probably get away with it!
|
|
|
Post by soundout on Nov 23, 2019 12:43:35 GMT
Enjoyed watching this review and agree with the reviewer that this unit is unique in the quality of acoustic sound it produces!
Since my original review on here, I’ve done some large festival gigs with FOH soundperson, and recently a couple of small PA gigs through my Allen & Heath digital desk, using a saved minimal EQ on the desk. All of these gigs have been trouble free and the guitar sound has had unsolicited compliments.
I note the reviewer’s comments about level and eq when switching guitars on stage. He seems to contradict himself a little - the level learning phase of the training process should, and does in my case, mean that no level difference results from changing guitars. I have made the mistake a couple of times of forgetting to dial in the new guitar wavemap when changing guitar. The first strum tells me I’m on the wrong wavemap and I need to switch. This bears out my original review and shows that the unit really is processing each guitar’s character individually.
Some of you have picked up the reviewer’s comments about a further preamp with more eq options - to be fair, both he and some of you admit to being ‘tweakers’. The whole point of this unit is the ‘one box’ solution and that’s why I bought it. If you like tweaking, fine! But what’s the point of buying a unit which expressly conveys the tonal character of different instruments, and then go about changing the sound that comes out of the unit? Maybe a different guitar is the answer (lol).
For those of you still not convinced - I’ve decided to put my previous mic/pickup blend system on sale. Take a look at the classifieds! This still offers the most controllability of all aspects of your sound, but I went for Tonedexter for ease of setup above all.
All the best Alistair Russell
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2019 16:55:47 GMT
Yep, you don’t need an eq pedal. This is a game changer.
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Nov 24, 2019 9:09:51 GMT
Enjoyed watching this review and agree with the reviewer that this unit is unique in the quality of acoustic sound it produces! Since my original review on here, I’ve done some large festival gigs with FOH soundperson, and recently a couple of small PA gigs through my Allen & Heath digital desk, using a saved minimal EQ on the desk. All of these gigs have been trouble free and the guitar sound has had unsolicited compliments. I note the reviewer’s comments about level and eq when switching guitars on stage. He seems to contradict himself a little - the level learning phase of the training process should, and does in my case, mean that no level difference results from changing guitars. I have made the mistake a couple of times of forgetting to dial in the new guitar wavemap when changing guitar. The first strum tells me I’m on the wrong wavemap and I need to switch. This bears out my original review and shows that the unit really is processing each guitar’s character individually. Some of you have picked up the reviewer’s comments about a further preamp with more eq options - to be fair, both he and some of you admit to being ‘tweakers’. The whole point of this unit is the ‘one box’ solution and that’s why I bought it. If you like tweaking, fine! But what’s the point of buying a unit which expressly conveys the tonal character of different instruments, and then go about changing the sound that comes out of the unit? Maybe a different guitar is the answer (lol). For those of you still not convinced - I’ve decided to put my previous mic/pickup blend system on sale. Take a look at the classifieds! This still offers the most controllability of all aspects of your sound, but I went for Tonedexter for ease of setup above all. All the best Alistair Russell Hi Alistair, My understanding is that the level balance in the training is between the input level and the microphone level - on my two guitar the output from the K&K pickup is drastically different in volume for some reason and therefore I had to change the input level in order to get the right amount of gain to train. This mismatch in level was then replicated when I performed live - ie I had to turn up the gain on the quiet pickup to match the output of the louder one. To be fair I could have spent more time experimenting with finding a middle ground on the input that worked for both but I only had limited time with the TD. So, for me, the fact that I had to physically adjust the setting when changing between guitars was a minus point, and, as I said in the review, the ability to recall presets would be, imo, an improvement (I notice you can now scroll through wavemaps with the footswitchs according to the new firmware update). As for the added EQ - again, in my experience, I found the TD to be a bit dominant in the mids and I wanted to be able to tame that. Now I understand that guitars are a mid-voiced instrument and, when a guitar is played acoustically, that midrange is what helps it project but, again imo, when you amplify a guitar beyond it's natural level, and particularly when you're singing as well, excess midrange can be an issue and I didn't feel the TD dealt with that very well. Because I often don't get much of a soundcheck at gigs (playing opening slots etc) I figured it was easier to take my own preamp and cut out some of the mids I found troubling before I went to the desk rather than spending valuable soundcheck time explaining that I'd like a cut at 700hz. As for a different guitar, well both my Martin and my Collings sound great unplugged and mic'd at gigs (I'm currently using an Ear Trumpet Labs mic for both vocals and guitar at suitable venues) so there's nothing wrong with my guitars I assure you. I liked the Tonedexter and did get some great sounds out of it but, for me, it didn't work as well as my dual source rig (K&K Pure Mini, DPA 4061 and a Grace Felix) in terms of ease of use, and I felt the tone improvement didn't translate as well live as it did at home - over headphones and recorded direct the TD sounded more like a 'real' guitar, but I actually found that live the dual source system still sounded really good and very 'real guitar-like' but with the benefit of a bit more attack due to the pickup. As I mentioned for a lot of my gigs now I try to use a single ETL Edwina mic if I can, so I am definitely a fan of simpler rigs, but, for me, the TD wasn't the answer. Hopefully I managed to stay neutral in my review and both praised and criticised the TD where I felt it was needed.
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Nov 24, 2019 13:10:45 GMT
Something I thought I'd clarify is that I feel the excess mids thing is particularly a problem for me and my style - I tend to play in DADGAD 90% of the time and I also leave a lot of open strings ringing, so that build up of overtones and midrange (which works really well to fill space around my vocal unplugged) can get overpowering if allowed to ring out when amplified at volume.
I think this aspect of my style is part of the reason why I've had feedback issues with the K&K where so many people claim they don't - this was solved with the Felix notch filter.
|
|
andrewjw
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,726
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by andrewjw on Nov 24, 2019 13:24:00 GMT
Thanks for the review Ben...balanced and interesting. As a long time fellow searcher for the "Holy Grail" of amplified acoustic sound I was surprised that the Tone Dexter doesn't have a sweepable mid control ...
|
|
|
Post by soundout on Nov 24, 2019 13:26:00 GMT
Hello Ben Once again thanks for a great review.
I must just be lucky that my current 3 guitars stored in my Tonedexter have a similar pickup output, so I haven’t noticed any level difference. Two are K&K and the other is a Baggs Anthem (using pickup only with Tonedexter). So I assumed the level control was automatic as long as you used the correct gain when creating the wavemap.
I asked the monitor engineer at my biggest gig last summer what he had had to do to the signal, and he showed me his eq setting. All he had done was some bass cut, and that has been borne out on two other small PAs as well. But as you rightly point out, by adjusting the onboard eq, notch and the character setting on the Tonedexter, you can deal with most rooms.
My aim when creating wavemaps was to reproduce the setup I had on my mic/pickup twin channel rig, which was to use the pickup sound for low end warmth and the mic for high end sparkle. This I achieved by placing the mic a lot further up the neck towards the headstock when training the Tonedexter. Wavemaps I made with the mic closer to the body did indeed have more boomy mids, as you have found out yourself.
As I said in my original review, it seems to me that you can arrive at whatever sound you like with the Tonedexter, by changing mic position and by using slot 22 unprocessed signals alongside the same processed wavemap. To anyone reading this for the first time, I’d stress that the creation of wavemaps is really easy on the Tonedexter, so don’t be frightened to throw one away and start again!
On an A/B test of my previous rig vs Tonedexter, (see previous review) I did hear a very slight difference, with my Tonedexter sounds being lighter on the bass, but I’ll stress again that the ease of use of the Tonedexter is the decider for me.
Lastly, on this forum it seems we all have nowt but fantastic guitars - my remark about a different guitar was a joke - lol, hehe and giggle.
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Nov 24, 2019 13:39:49 GMT
Hello Ben Once again thanks for a great review. I must just be lucky that my current 3 guitars stored in my Tonedexter have a similar pickup output, so I haven’t noticed any level difference. Two are K&K and the other is a Baggs Anthem (using pickup only with Tonedexter). So I assumed the level control was automatic as long as you used the correct gain when creating the wavemap. I asked the monitor engineer at my biggest gig last summer what he had had to do to the signal, and he showed me his eq setting. All he had done was some bass cut, and that has been borne out on two other small PAs as well. But as you rightly point out, by adjusting the onboard eq, notch and the character setting on the Tonedexter, you can deal with most rooms. My aim when creating wavemaps was to reproduce the setup I had on my mic/pickup twin channel rig, which was to use the pickup sound for low end warmth and the mic for high end sparkle. This I achieved by placing the mic a lot further up the neck towards the headstock when training the Tonedexter. Wavemaps I made with the mic closer to the body did indeed have more boomy mids, as you have found out yourself. As I said in my original review, it seems to me that you can arrive at whatever sound you like with the Tonedexter, by changing mic position and by using slot 22 unprocessed signals alongside the same processed wavemap. To anyone reading this for the first time, I’d stress that the creation of wavemaps is really easy on the Tonedexter, so don’t be frightened to throw one away and start again! On an A/B test of my previous rig vs Tonedexter, (see previous review) I did hear a very slight difference, with my Tonedexter sounds being lighter on the bass, but I’ll stress again that the ease of use of the Tonedexter is the decider for me. Lastly, on this forum it seems we all have nowt but fantastic guitars - my remark about a different guitar was a joke - lol, hehe and giggle. Interesting - are you using the character control to blend in the pickup signal? I experimented with a few different mic positions and mics but I found that the 12/14th fret at about 12-18 inches out sounded the best but then I guess maybe I was aiming for a 'recorded' guitar sound? I did a gig recently with a chap who was using the TD and he was very complementary about it but he basically said that he spent a long time making multiple wavemaps from different positions and then comparing them all through a big PA in a rehearsal space till he found the best ones. His tone was good but, to be 100% honest, the thought of having to spend that amount of time doing critical listening and comparing etc brings me out in a sweat! I think the anxious part of my nature would constantly be second guessing if I was using the TD - that's what I was alluding to in the video. To be honest even owning two guitars sometimes makes me anxious as I start fretting over which one sounds best in which tuning or am I using it enough to justify owning it, or would it sound better with a different gauge string set on it etc so I have been tempted to go down to a single guitar in the past! Some of my most enjoyable gigs have been recent ones where I take a single guitar, stay in DADGAD for the whole gig and either use my ETL or set my Felix up once and then forget about it - the freedom from faffing is wonderful!
|
|
Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,345
|
Post by Riverman on Nov 24, 2019 13:40:58 GMT
Something I thought I'd clarify is that I feel the excess mids thing is particularly a problem for me and my style - I tend to play in DADGAD 90% of the time and I also leave a lot of open strings ringing, so that build up of overtones and midrange (which works really well to fill space around my vocal unplugged) can get overpowering if allowed to ring out when amplified at volume. I think this aspect of my style is part of the reason why I've had feedback issues with the K&K where so many people claim they don't - this was solved with the Felix notch filter. I haven’t tried a Tonedexter so can’t add to this specific discussion, but what Ben said here really resonates with me (no pun intended) - although my style of playing is different to his, my somewhat heavy thumb on the 2 and the 4 of an alternating bass rhythm gives me a muddy midrange sound with a K&K. That’s the main reason I’ve moved to soundhole pickups, much as I would prefer the simplicity of the K&K. Sorry to have diverted the thread, but I think the suitability of different pickups for different playing styles is often overlooked...
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Nov 25, 2019 14:49:44 GMT
I have been using the Tonedexter for 18 months now. As many of you know I play exclusively in alternate tunings including DADGAD. I have never had any such problems with he Tonedexter. Before buying mine I chatted with Larry Pattis — a very fine fingerstyle guitarist who plays exclusively in DADGAD. He hasn't had these problems either! I understand the reticence about the lack of mid tone controls but the EQ curves of both the bass and treble on the TD are cleverly worked out. The settings do need tweaking depending on the room you are playing on and the guitar you are playing. My three guitars are all 'in the' TD. If there is a sound guy I tend to set the thing flat and let him/her sort it out. When using my own amp I will often cut the bass and add a little treble. James May — the investor of the TD — often refer to the muddiness of the K&K but bear in mind he sells his own K&K like pickup with two additional sensors. These he claims deal with mud and also with some minor phase issues. My guitars were TD'd with Headway pickups and Fishman pickups (nothing exciting). But as Riverman says different pickups and styles do often require different attention. Hope that helps!
|
|
|
Post by soundout on Dec 12, 2019 19:56:21 GMT
Tone Dexter firmware update!
Alerted by Ben, I just updated my Tonedexter firmware to get the footscrolling feature.
Not only does that work perfectly, but the tweaks they have made to the learning process are excellent. I did new wavemaps for all 3 guitars and A/B compared them with my last set. Wow ! An even more natural acoustic sound has now been achieved. I kept my old settings until I was sure the new ones were to my liking, but there’s no contest really. They’ve made a good thing better.
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Dec 14, 2019 19:00:31 GMT
Tone Dexter firmware update! Alerted by Ben, I just updated my Tonedexter firmware to get the footscrolling feature. Not only does that work perfectly, but the tweaks they have made to the learning process are excellent. I did new wavemaps for all 3 guitars and A/B compared them with my last set. Wow ! An even more natural acoustic sound has now been achieved. I kept my old settings until I was sure the new ones were to my liking, but there’s no contest really. They’ve made a good thing better. Be good to hear the new wavemaps? I'm still tempted by the Tonedexter, despite my 'year of almost no gear' post!
|
|