scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 13, 2013 12:56:04 GMT
I know this skill is either granted to you or very difficult to grasp and does take years to learn. Im a relatively new player and im simply trying to makw an arrangement of a song. Firstly I would need to learn the melody. I keep playing the song over and over again to figure it out but I cant seem to find it.
Any of you got any advice?
Thanks chris
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Dec 13, 2013 13:06:48 GMT
I know this skill is either granted to you or very difficult to grasp and does take years to learn. Im a relatively new player and im simply trying to makw an arrangement of a song. Firstly I would need to learn the melody. I keep playing the song over and over again to figure it out but I cant seem to find it. Any of you got any advice? Thanks chris Stop listening to jazz If it's a song start by singing along too, record you singing it and then note by note slowly work it out on the guitar.
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 13, 2013 13:21:23 GMT
Thanks Dave. Might give that a go. Kind of disheartened as she was singing it 4 tones higher.
Any other methods.
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Dec 13, 2013 13:29:53 GMT
Thanks Dave. Might give that a go. Kind of disheartened as she was singing it 4 tones higher. Well once you've worked it out just bring it all down by four tones.
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Dec 13, 2013 13:58:54 GMT
There are software solutions to helping learn tunes by ear, such as Amazing Slowdowner. These can take any digital music track and change the speed without altering the pitch, which I imagine would be very helpful in working out some more complex pieces.
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Dec 13, 2013 14:17:59 GMT
Noodle about on the guitar while the song is playing in the background... This should let you find the key it is being played in... Apply a capo if required so you can gradually play along in a key that you are familiar with [ remote with pause and rewind useful ]...there are only a limited number of basic chords for each key so by a process of elimination you should be able to work out the chord sequence. By now you'll know the melody really well .. All that is left to do is to find a key that you can sing the song in yourself...either by moving the capo up or down or by transposing the song into another key.
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 13, 2013 14:32:33 GMT
Thats sound brilliant martin going to download that tonight and give it a try.
Im trying to write an arranent of she keeps me warm. Just picked this song at random. Annoys the hell out of me the first not of the melody is supposed to be the note of the key. They lied its not F. But the key of the song is F.
Just overall to improve my ear because I feel its a necessary skill I need to develope.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 13, 2013 14:55:28 GMT
Lots of good advice so far, but the main clue to the answer is in the thread title. Ears.
I'm assuming here that you are going to play an instrumental version of this tune - yes?
So -
Listen to the melody.(don't go near your guitar).
Listen to the melody.(don't go near your guitar).
Listen to the melody. (don't go near your guitar).
Turn off whatever music machine you've been listening to.
Have a coffee. Can you hum the melody aloud/in your head? Doesn't matter if your starting not is higher or lower than the recording - if you really know the tune you'll automatically pitch it roughly right for you. In your head you can hum higher and lower than in your real voice too. The original key of the piece is not really that relevant. So, can you hum the melody aloud/in your head?
If not, go back to the top of this list and repeat.
If yes, -
Now pick up your guitar and decide where you want the melody to be placed - see if you can find a starting not and work out the melody one note at a time. If it doesn't sit/finger comfortably then try it somewhere else.
If you know some possible chords to go with this melody you possibly start with them and see where the tune fits in them either from notes already in the chord or by taking fingers off/adding fingers.
That should give you an idea of a bass line from the lower chord notes. A melody and a bassline can be all you might need, but knowing what chords go, or what you want to use, will fill in the "middle" with easily reachable harmony or passing notes.
If you're getting somehwere, keep at it. If you feel the need for easier access to some bass notes/the melody to be higher/lower on the neck consider a different tuning or a different key for the chords. Helps if you know lots of chord inversions, or, better still, you know what elements make up a particular chord so you can create your own inversion/fingerings to suit the piece/position on the neck.
Hm, rambling now - it's a lot easier to do than describe. But the key is using ears, and spending time in repeatedly and actively listening.
The first one you do is always the hardest. After several years you'll be a lot quicker. There aren't any short cuts, but put the work in and you'll get the result sooner or later.
Good luck!
keith
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 13, 2013 15:06:55 GMT
.............. Annoys the hell out of me the first not of the melody is supposed to be the note of the key. They lied its not F. But the key of the song is F. There's no rule of that nature Chris - the first note can be anything, sometimes not even present in the chord. That's why listening till you can hum it is important - then it doesn't matter what key it's in, or what key you put it in to suit your guitar or, if singing, your voice. Nor does the speed of the piece matter because you can hum it at whatever speed you like. If the tune as recorded is in F, then the likely first note possibilities would be F, C or A, though there could well be more outlandish possibilities! Just overall to improve my ear because I feel its a necessary skill I need to develope. Spot on! keith
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 13, 2013 17:11:01 GMT
Thanks Keith for your advice.
Something I've been trying to do for a while. Just studying videos and learning songs that way by ear and eye is not enough for my ear.
Going to give it a good go at your technique to see if i helps me finding the melody.
I've been singing the song the whole day so i think I know what it sounds like but we'll see.
The chord progression is F, C, Am, G and I'm sure it starts on G.
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 13, 2013 17:15:21 GMT
Do you have a link to an audio or video of this one? I'm not familiar with the title...
keith
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 13, 2013 17:22:32 GMT
I chose this song by random. Don't judge me
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 13, 2013 17:48:11 GMT
OK, is your intention to sing it with guitar backup, or to do a fingerstyle instrumental?
The song is in C on the vid. Very repetitive chord structure - once you've come across it in several songs you'll recognise it I'm sure.
The verse begins on an F chord though. Pretty much every line is F C G chords in that order. In the chorus bit Fmaj7 C G seems to work better as the piano is harmonising it slightly differently. Towards the end it uses F Am G instead - can you hear the difference?
Keith
edit - as a piano based recording it can be a little harder to hear what's going on - pianists have a habit on sticking extra notes in, and the chords are so spread out. You need to listen to the bass too. If it were guitar strumming or picking based on the recording based I'm sure you'd hear the chords/changes a lot more easily.
Gotta go now - catch you later! K
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Dec 13, 2013 18:20:23 GMT
My 'advice' is not going to help you do it!! So is it much use? You've got some great advice already which will help you.
My advice is simply to not beat yourself up about it if this is not a natural skill to you. You will learn it but might take more time than others. In the group of oldies I help, some are great at picking up rhythm (and pull me up when I do something different to what I said) whilst others just can't get it. Some can hear straight away when there is a chord change; surprisingly some can't and are having to learn it; some can tell you what the next chord might be after only a short period of time; a few may never 'get' this and will always need the chords written down for them or the tab. Some grasp the basics of transposing quickly; to others its like latin.
So the advice is that we're all good at some things and not at others. I've got a pretty good ear and can usually tell what's next, where it starts, nuances between 6ths, 7ths, major 7ths etc. That's my lucky bit. I can hear it. My unlucky bit is not being too good at actually PLAYING the damn stuff!
So, work your way through it; do what Keith says; just listen and listen and then try to work it out. Cheat after you've tried by using one of the many sites which give the answers, but not before you've tried hard without.
And don't worry, it'll suddenly/eventually just happen.
Good luck
FFJ
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scotch
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Post by scotch on Dec 15, 2013 12:28:41 GMT
So i tried you're Method Keith. Very difficult, because once i hear one note on the Guitar just puts me off and dont know where i was within the melody.
I tried Martin's advice where I downloaded an Application where it would slow the song down but retain its pitch. Absolutely brilliant wee app it is. I sat for atleast 30mins trying to learn the melody of "Concerning Hobbits" Which is quite a distinctive melody. Took me around 30mins to get something close to it. Still not happy with what it is but thats me learned the melody alone.
Right now I'm trying to leave it cause this is the only thing that frustrates me. I'll try this Slow application with She keeps me warm later and see if does help with that song.
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