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Post by markthomson on Jun 1, 2014 14:43:24 GMT
PS I'm really happy that you are enjoy both the Travellers Tale and Solway Sunset! Regards,
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 1, 2014 16:52:44 GMT
Many thanks Mark. I'm really enjoying trying to bring to my playing at least some of the qualities I hear in your playing. I'm amazed at how strong a pulse you can keep in music when it's played so gently and so slowly. It shows a real connection with the music and a real feeling for it. It's certainly a piece of music that merits long term attention. AT the same time I'm looking forward to making a start on looking at one of the others in your book ... once I can get far enough with Keiths "Coming Home" tune to divide my attention again. Very nice contrast with the two tunes in that medley on your video - and a tasty version of Roslin Castle with some beautifully subtle nuance and phrasing. Mark EDIT Oh ... and thank you for your advice about the capo. I've been enjoying those qualities of nuance and phrasing on the Solway Sunset album ... currently on a permanent loop in the car. It's making even the journey to work a pleasure!
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 1, 2014 18:33:57 GMT
I think it's now nearly 9 days since I got the "Butterfly Collection, and 8 since I started studying "Coming Home" so as I'll not have much time during the next 5 days of the working week to practice it I thought I'd post a guide as to where I am now. The recording linked below is much better than just a few days ago as I've had a productive weekends practice, but it's not good enough yet to merit uploading a Wav file, so the mp3 quality will need to be enough to adequately highlight the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. Early Test on "Coming Home" tune on TW73The main theme is coming along not too badly - I had to move some melodic line notes to higher up the second string instead of lower on the top string. For me an unexpected benefit was that the final part of a melodic line E D D E F# E which was 2 0 0 2 4 2 on the top string goes to 7 5 5 7 9 7 on the second and that 7th fret note seems to have quite a sweet sound, and can be given a better subtle bit of vibrato than at the first string 2nd fret. The middle section with the triplets and the run of notes flowing down from the 12th fret to the nut is proving rather more tricky to (1) avoid wrong notes, (2) remember and (3) get the timing right particularly with that downward run. What is clear to me is that I want to keep working at it, as it's such a great melodic piece of music. I'm enjoying the challenge. It is maybe that I'm rushing it slightly at 3:09 compared to Keiths 3:23. But time enough to slow it down when I develop the skill-set to make the tonal variations and subtleties in phrasing that allow a slower speed to still sound interesting. I don't think that slowing it down at the moment will reduce the numbers of wrong notes. Think that could well be it on this thread until at least next weekend. Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 1, 2014 22:38:35 GMT
Thanks for posting that Mark - takes nerve to post "works in progress", but you've made a grand start, and very rapidly too - really looking forward to hearing how this progresses. Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 4, 2014 6:33:15 GMT
Many thanks Keith - encouraging words are a great help to keep me going back to working more on the tune. Wish I could find more time to keep the momentum going during the working week. Mark
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Post by missclarktree on Jun 4, 2014 17:48:55 GMT
Well, that's coming along nicely. Very interesting to hear a work in progress, as normally we only hear our own stuff in the woodshed. Isn't it frustrating when work gets in the way? How can you tear yourself away from the guitar to do something less important? Hope we all win the lottery next Saturday.
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 5, 2014 22:08:03 GMT
Thank you .... and a good question Alison! How can I tear myself away from the guitar to do something important? I can't always manage that to be honest - fortunately there's a degree of flexitime in my work so I can arrive a bit late and leave at a later time to balance it. So some later starts which fit in with my feeling most musically alert in the morning. By the evening my mental energy is depleted! But yes, a lottery win would be a good solution. Anyway - 4 days later on "Coming Home" and I think it's moved on a bit more. The last couple of days I've been managing a fair number of tries with only a few mistakes and no crashing halts. The run of notes flowing down from the 12th fret to the nut is finally getting into my muscle memory which helps - I don't get that sinking feeling coming up to that passage now. "Coming Home" - Stage 2So I'll call this recording Stage 2. I hope you can agree it's improved on the Early Test (Stage 1) a few posts back. I feel notes are more secure and it's starting to flow a bit better. The hammer ons and pull offs need worked on as a lot of them are (more than) a bit shoddy. The main thing that's now needed I feel is work on the interpretation and feel of the piece - that's a much longer term task. I know music is not all about minutes and seconds but my 03:00 compares to Keiths 03:26, and I feel that's because I'm not letting the music breathe and express itself enough. I think I'm lacking a bit of confidence in my technique of letting notes quietly ring to be honest. So stage 3, getting interpretation improved, will take a fair bit of time I think, and will be done by way of repeated but less frequent visits to the tune while I start to tackle something else from the "Butterfly Collection". I am really enjoying these two "road trip project" books - I'm so glad they were mentioned on the "Desert Island" thread. Keith - can I assume you are OK with me posting this &/or further attempts at this tune elsewhere on the internet? With, of course, full credit being given to the composer. Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 5, 2014 22:41:18 GMT
Good progress Mark, and from your own comments you seem well aware of the areas to work on, so I'm sure you'll achieve what you're after. In particular, the more familiar you get with the tune the easier you'll find it to relax and give some bits a bit more space, allow certain notes to sustain, and get more fluidity into some of the runs. And yes, I'm quite happy for you to play/post your versions of the tune (and others) in appropriate places with due acknowledgement etc. Keep on plucking! Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 12, 2014 7:39:12 GMT
Thank you Keith, on both the advice and on the OK ... sorry it's taken me a week to remember to reply to your post. You're quite right about the familiarity = relaxation = fluidity and space for notes. Getting the melodic line to flow is also something to work at - I can hear the way that your "Butterly" playing and Marks "Travellers Tale" playing have very strongly defined and well shaped melodic lines whatever else is going on with the harmony notes and rhythm. I'm continuing to play the "Coming Home" and "Roslin Castle" - hopefully turning them into more polished versions over the months ahead. Amidst the distractions of blues slide and Celtic mandolin music I've started looking at a new piece in the "Travellers Tale" collection. Very much not as easy as it might sound ... "The Dark Island". The fairly swift little 4 note combinations of 2 demi-semi quavers, 1 semi quaver and 1 quaver are quite tricky, but essential to the sound. There are some great tones and resonances that just occur because of the notes of the piece which is great for making it sound musical even at an early stage - but the extra subtlety and nuance that Mark brings to his recording of the tune is instructive and intimidating. I haven't yet settled on a next piece from the "Butterfly" collection. But I've a two week break from work coming up so hopefully I'll be able to choose one by then and have two new pieces to work on. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 12, 2014 19:21:17 GMT
Well - I've been pushing ahead on "The Dark Island". But not too far ahead yet - lots of struggles so far, so this is just Stage 1. The result of playing it through about 10 times was I could cut out out one of them that had no real nasty mistakes. But as this is as good as it gets, you'll understand there's a way too go. Playing the TW73 so I'm not doing a capo job. Pocketrak PR7 recorder. Stage 1 Early Test - "The Dark Island"The intro needs a LOT of work - currently stilted and not enough variations. Further on the times I need to hammer onto the 7th fret from the 4th on the first string while playing the open 4th string at the same time are proving very hit and miss with at least one of the notes usually askew (with hilarious results). The really big issue is shown up by my having a quick comparison with Mark Thomsons recording. I'm at about the right tempo but my playing sounds slower, much less fluid and too noisy and brash. There's a great subtlety of tone and such better phrasing in Marks playing - plus I can hear the melody singing out clearly in his version. Yes ... a long way to go. But at least I know what I'm looking for .... remains to be seen if I can find it though. On Keiths "Butterfly" collection I'm wondering about trying "Lament" now. I think it's free of (for me) impossible stretches - just has difficult ones. I do like the sound of it when Keith plays it - and it's mood appeals to my general nature. A quick run through or two shows I do have trouble with getting 10th fret 1st string and 9th fret 3rd string together after a slide up to 12th fret first string. So .... muscle memory building time then! Mark
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Post by markthomson on Jun 14, 2014 8:28:55 GMT
Thats an excellent starting point Mark, in terms of where to go, you are bang on with your comment about fluidity and phrasing. Regardless, I can hear instantly what the tune is, as would any listener who is familiar with the tune, so you are only looking at small details to take it to the next level. PS This is one the most popular tunes when I play live, so many people in Scotland know it in one form or other, and it always gets a great reaction, so it'll be a handy one to have in your repertoire.
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 14, 2014 8:51:49 GMT
That's pretty good after only 10 times through! And, as usual, you know pretty much what needs sorting, so you will , of course, get there! Nice one. All the best with Lament, Mark - the good thing about that one is the slow speed - more time to remember what comes next!
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 15, 2014 9:14:16 GMT
Thats an excellent starting point Mark, in terms of where to go, you are bang on with your comment about fluidity and phrasing. Regardless, I can hear instantly what the tune is, as would any listener who is familiar with the tune, so you are only looking at small details to take it to the next level. PS This is one the most popular tunes when I play live, so many people in Scotland know it in one form or other, and it always gets a great reaction, so it'll be a handy one to have in your repertoire. Thank you Mark. I'm pleased to hear that my thoughts on what are needed make sense. Now the big test of course ... turning those thoughts into successful action! It's a great help being able to hear your version. Not that I'm anticipating trying to copy the style but it's a great demonstration of how the written notes can be transformed into so much more. I've never been able to have the musical chops to sound like any other player. Mark That's pretty good after only 10 times through! And, as usual, you know pretty much what needs sorting, so you will , of course, get there! Nice one. All the best with Lament, Mark - the good thing about that one is the slow speed - more time to remember what comes next! To be honest, and for the sake of clarity ... it was after 10 times through while making a recording. I had been playing (well ... trying to play) it for a couple of days before. But hopefully with my thoughts in the right direction I can move this forward. I see you've worked out one of the probable main reasons for choosing the Lament. But as well as thinking time it gives more chance of getting the old fingers moving into place on time. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 21, 2014 19:14:50 GMT
The Dark Island has progressed a little - I still absolutely cannot play through it with the repeat and not have a few wrong notes, and several fluffed ones. But I think it is becoming a bit more more fluent. Stage 2 - trying for more fluidity, but still replete with wrong notes"Lament" from Keiths Butterfly book is proving very tricky. It's a slow tempo and there's not a lot of notes .... but those notes need played with feeling and precision, and a strong sense of phrasing. So I'm still a way off even a Stage 1 initial recording. I don't mind you guys hearing flawed playing, but not fractured playing! Meanwhile as part of a subscription to cut my annual magazine buying costs I've ended up with a free G7th Performance Capo. Given my issues with sound on my TW73 on Roslin Castle with the Kyser capo at fret 5, I've revisited the song today. I've not played the tune much the last few days so notes are a bit shaky but ... the main reason for recording was to check tone and I think the G7th is better on the sounds than the Kyser. Roslin Castle - with G7th capo at fret 5My earlier version with the Kyser is several posts back - so the link to that for comparison is:- Roslin Castle - Earlier version - Kyser Capo fret 5Mark
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Post by michaelm on Jun 21, 2014 19:31:30 GMT
Thank you .... and a good question Alison! How can I tear myself away from the guitar to do something important? I can't always manage that to be honest - fortunately there's a degree of flexitime in my work so I can arrive a bit late and leave at a later time to balance it. So some later starts which fit in with my feeling most musically alert in the morning. By the evening my mental energy is depleted! But yes, a lottery win would be a good solution. Anyway - 4 days later on "Coming Home" and I think it's moved on a bit more. The last couple of days I've been managing a fair number of tries with only a few mistakes and no crashing halts. The run of notes flowing down from the 12th fret to the nut is finally getting into my muscle memory which helps - I don't get that sinking feeling coming up to that passage now. "Coming Home" - Stage 2So I'll call this recording Stage 2. I hope you can agree it's improved on the Early Test (Stage 1) a few posts back. I feel notes are more secure and it's starting to flow a bit better. The hammer ons and pull offs need worked on as a lot of them are (more than) a bit shoddy. The main thing that's now needed I feel is work on the interpretation and feel of the piece - that's a much longer term task. I know music is not all about minutes and seconds but my 03:00 compares to Keiths 03:26, and I feel that's because I'm not letting the music breathe and express itself enough. I think I'm lacking a bit of confidence in my technique of letting notes quietly ring to be honest. So stage 3, getting interpretation improved, will take a fair bit of time I think, and will be done by way of repeated but less frequent visits to the tune while I start to tackle something else from the "Butterfly Collection". I am really enjoying these two "road trip project" books - I'm so glad they were mentioned on the "Desert Island" thread. Keith - can I assume you are OK with me posting this &/or further attempts at this tune elsewhere on the internet? With, of course, full credit being given to the composer. Mark I only opened my Butterfly book this last week, and was quite taken with the first track (Coming Home). I have to say that's an enjoyable "version" (for want of a better word). There's a couple of places where it sounds a little "rushed" to the cd track, but overall, spot on :-)
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