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Post by vikingblues on Oct 15, 2015 9:23:12 GMT
That's very helpful of you Kym to do all that work to help me. I'm just having a thought that maybe I messed up with the files I sent to Box.com. What I've been saying about the separate tracks on this thread refers to my hearing them in the DAW. I'm not at my computer till this evening, and I've got no sound facilty where I am to hear anything, so I can't check that out just now. What I see on your dual spaced pair screen shot is more in line with the sort of differences I was seeing using the CK-1 and the AKG as a pair to record. Similar but with enough differences it doesn't need close examination to see them. My previous and only experience with a matched pair that started this thread wasn't good in the end ... the Oktavas should have been a decent choice as mics but they had the snag of being very badly matched indeed - no use as a pair. So I don't have prior knowledge of how my system does things on a good matched pair of mics. Many thanks! Mark
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Post by lavaman on Oct 15, 2015 9:39:44 GMT
Mark The two sound files are not identical. I loaded them into my DAW and did a standard null test by reversing the polarity (sometimes called phase) of one of them. If they were identical they would cancel each other out and you'd hear silence; you don't, so no worries. I think you've got a pretty good sound there. All your hours of trial and error are paying off. I did a quick mix on them which you can download here: www.dropbox.com/s/0d4l7lomdio1a07/Viking%20Blues.wav?dl=0I panned the tracks 50% Left and right, added a little bit of compression, and on the EQ cut 2 db at 3kHz to remove harshness and boosted at 350Hz by 1.5 db to add warmth. I didn't need to add any reverb. Well done Iain
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Post by scripsit on Oct 15, 2015 10:04:00 GMT
The two sound files are not identical. I agree. I just downloaded the individual tracks from links 2 and 3 (not the first link, which is supposed to be both mics mixed together), and these two are visibly different in my DAW. Kym
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Riverman on Oct 15, 2015 10:05:15 GMT
This is all very interesting. I don't suppose one of you guys could pop round to have a look at why my Sky+ box is playing up could you?
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 15, 2015 17:36:37 GMT
Thanks Iain and Kym - just back in from work and fed so I'll be able to get back to trying out my new toy! Glad / relieved to know that the files are different and also glad to hear a positive view of the sound from you Iain. I just tried that link you did in the post above for your mix but it didn't work - came up with a "Link not found" "404!" error message. Shame - I was hoping to hear what a good mix had done - it would give me something to aim at apart from anything else. Thanks chaps for helping out and taking an interest. I really should look seriously at that book you recommended back in April Iain - Mike Senior - "Recording secrets for the small studio". I should maximise the benefit of improved gear if I can. Mark
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Post by lavaman on Oct 15, 2015 22:57:49 GMT
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 16, 2015 7:11:45 GMT
This is all very interesting. I don't suppose one of you guys could pop round to have a look at why my Sky+ box is playing up could you? Worth a try :-)
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 16, 2015 7:25:09 GMT
Very nice job of mixing indeed - very good of you to do that and thanks for re-linking it! If that's the sort of results that Mike Seniors book can help bring I think I'd better look at getting one. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 18, 2015 14:02:25 GMT
Having got all my computer gear working again - a second test of the dual CK-1 mics. Same cheap guitar and same mix of Omni and Cardioid capsules on the mics. I've tried to do something a bit similar to Iain's treatment of Test 1 - pan, very mild compression, and EQ cut at 3Khz. No reverb added as there's more than enough in the recording naturally! A few bum notes in there, but it's a couple of pieces I'm not yet used to yet out of my new Rob MacKillop book. Plus after a morning of wrestling with recalcitrant (ooh - big words Mark ) computers I'm not in a state to play well! CK-1 Dual Mics Test 2I'm happy with how this particular dual system is working I think. Better start getting my act together and working on my playing skills - need to manage something good enough for a Plucky Duck posting. Mark
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Post by lavaman on Oct 18, 2015 22:22:02 GMT
Hi Mark
I listened to your 2nd test and the results are pleasing. Bright clear tones. I think you're getting hang of microphone placement.
One area you might want to look at is the low frequencies. Frequencies below 100 Hz in your recording have been attenuated severely. I suggest repeating the test with the microphone's High Pass switch in the off position to see if that gives you a warmer, fuller sound.
Iain
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 19, 2015 6:27:17 GMT
Thanks you for the advice Iain, and for the listen - It doesn't involve changing anything on the computer so I can take the risk. (But also best if I keep in mind that what is being recorded is a guitar that falls well and truly into the category of low budget at £230 new.) I have to admit that beyond seeing that the microphones have such switches I've not investigated them at all! Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 25, 2015 10:22:10 GMT
I finally took the advice of Iain and got the book by Mike Senior - "Recording Secrets for the Small Studio". A pretty comprehensive guide at over 400 pages, and it seems from what I've looked at so far that it's written in a clear way for a thicko on the subject like me, and doesn't get bogged down in esoteric technicalities. I also like the way he allows the reader to use their own ears and judgement to gauge what is good rather than insist on everything has to be done his way. So the reader feels more like they're participating in the decision making process while learning rather than just being given a list of detailed steps and procedures that are written in stone. I was very interested to see his comments this morning on microphone polar patterns. Included in these comments with regard to single microphone recording he mentions Cardioid as giving a typically too dry sound, and Omni being typically too wet. Which makes me think maybe my gut feeling at using a Cardioid and Omni together in a dual mic setting makes sense as they will make a compromise between them to produce a sound that is in the middle of dry and wet - i.e. about right ........ unless of course it means that I get a recording that is too dry AND too wet at the same time!! Anyway - thanks Iain - I'm enjoying the read, have quickly found some interesting and thought provoking comments and I am sure that I will find benefits from it. Mark Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 25, 2015 11:22:40 GMT
To be honest Mark I would keep things as simple a stereo system as you can!
Different mics have different biases towards directional or omni. My current recording mics are directional small cadiods, Bayerdynamic 993's. I have fantastic large FET mic, the Mojave 301 FET which seems to prefer different options for different jobs. For vocals I tend to use it in omni mode using a reflection filter/booth thing. For voice overs at my computer (in a more heavily sound treated section of my office/recording space) the single directional setting seems to work best.
I've experimented with a third mic in the centre of the stereo pair. I've also added a pickup to the mix as well. Maybe I haven't had long enough to play at this but to be honest I don't think it has added anything — at least to my guitar recorded in my space with my technique!
For vocals I haven't tried the omni setting without the reflection filter — I'll have a go and see how wet this is!
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Post by lavaman on Oct 25, 2015 11:44:21 GMT
To be honest Mark I would keep things as simple a stereo system as you can! Mark, Glad you bought the book, its full of interesting information. I found his 'cut to the chase' sections at the end of each chapter very helpful. I agree with Andy. Keep it simple. Your last recordings show that you're getting there. Iain
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 25, 2015 11:52:07 GMT
To be honest Mark I would keep things as simple a stereo system as you can! Mark, Glad you bought the book, its full of interesting information. I found his 'cut to the chase' sections at the end of each chapter very helpful. I agree with Andy. Keep it simple. Your last recordings show that you're getting there. Iain Agreed.
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