meganhkmusic
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Post by meganhkmusic on Apr 5, 2013 10:54:03 GMT
Hello, I have been songwriting for about 2/3 years so i wouldn't call myself a well established songwriter. I have recently been struck with songwriters block. I know exactly what i want to say but i just can't seem to get it into the right words to go along with the guitar chords or piano Has this happened to anyone else? If so any pointers would be greatly appreciated! Megan
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 5, 2013 11:07:53 GMT
Megan, I write down my thoughts first, then try and work out the rhymes. If there's a particular phrase I want to use but can't find a suitable rhyme I see if changing the order of the words in the phrase will throw open any other opportunities. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't - it might be worth a shot... (And never be too apologetic or embarrassed if you have to resort to www.rhymezone.com/ )
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 5, 2013 11:24:23 GMT
Glad you plan to develop your writing Megan.
Topics/themes for songs can be difficult, but unless you're keen to say something in particular,you aren't going to end up with a good song no matter what the melody/arrangement is. The good news is that you mention in your post that you do know what you want to say - excellent!
It sounds from your post that you tend to begin with the chords and then add words. Maybe you could try a different approach from time to time - try coming up with the words in fairly complete form first, then a melody, and finally put appropriate chording to the result. ie Let what you want to say decide the form of the song.
If you do get stuck for themes sometimes -
Personal experience can be a good source, though sometimes it can be extremely difficult/painful/embarrassing to write something very personal for a wider audience.
Maybe consider writing a song for a friend/relative etc by way of encouragement/thanks etc.
How about news topics that concern you?
Some people are good at writing "story" songs - maybe worth a try?
Maybe I should follow my own advice more closely!!
Good luck! Keith
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Apr 5, 2013 11:31:02 GMT
Whenever I've tried writing songs, I almost always come up with interesting (to me) music first and then try to find words that fit, in a theme suggested by the feel of the music. I don't know if this is right or wrong, but experience suggests it isn't optimal, since the words I then tend to come up with make me cringe a wee while later I think Keith's general advice about finding a melody to your chosen lyrics first is good, and Leo's skill with rhymes is unparalleled
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Apr 5, 2013 15:36:41 GMT
My lyrics and melody come at the same time, and I never know what the song is going to be about until it's written. Then it plays constantly in my head until I have everything fine tuned and it's been recorded. Kind of a PITA but it can also be a blessing, I don't have many half-finished songs. Sorry I have no real pointers. If I try to force a song it ends up being terrible, without trying to sound too hippie-ish, they seem to come to me when I'm ready, I can't just sit down and say to myself "it's time to write a song".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 13:02:45 GMT
A very good writer told me some years ago that there's no such thing as writer's block, only lazy writers. Now bear with me, and understand that at the time I was as indignant as you may be at that remark, but I've since understood his point.
The idea is the easy part, but it's the graft that matters. I get the proverbial beginning, middle and end sketched out in my mind first, then sit down and map out the rhyme scheme with instrument at hand. If I have the tune, I try to wail it out as I want to hear it rather than as my playing habits dictate, picking out essential notes and then finding chords to suit and keep the flow going. While I'm doing this, I keep the overall shape of the lyric in mind and maybe jot down some notes as I go along.
Then, daft as it seems, I put my guitar down or back away from the keyboard so they can't distract me and go and bash the thing out in Word, not stopping until I've got a first draft of the lyric. It's always messy and in need of revision or editing, but once the shape of it is there, everything else is a matter of tweaking, editing (yes folks, I really do edit the bloody things, but they still come out at nine minutes...) and finesse. I find that if I don't do it this way or am disturbed by the proverbial person from Porlock it never gets properly finished.
I'm entirely with Lynn by the way: don't be shy of using rhyming dictionaries or a thesaurus. They're useful tools, and often regurgitate the exact word you're looking for.
Two other things. It's always a good idea to carry a notebook and pen along with an MP3 player with a record facility for getting ideas down as they occur. And I personally value time walking dogs, having a bath or locked in the toilet, as they help inspiration to strike.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 6, 2013 13:15:22 GMT
Two other things. It's always a good idea to carry a notebook and pen along with an MP3 player with a record facility for getting ideas down as they occur. And I personally value time walking dogs, having a bath or locked in the toilet, as they help inspiration to strike. Definitely with you on the pen/paper thing, WD.... I must admit that this issue has been helped a great deal by the advent of the smartphone - mine has a little* folder on it in which I write rhymes, ideas and such like. if, as you suggest, some of your songs get written whilst on the loo may I respectfully suggest that it isn't 'writers' block you are suffering... * not so little!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 21:28:40 GMT
I forgot phones could do that Leo! The Memsahib and my agent made me get one once, but I lost it (...behind a sack of Gromore in the shed).
I have to admit I lose notes on the MP3 player and our various PCs, and prefer the substance of notebooks. I have them dating back decades, and still find useful stuff in them. For instance, there's one from 1972 where I said that a morning was "grey and soft lined - looks like it's been drawn in pencil. Bus stop's been swept clean as my empty head, but Andy Elsmore's felt tip drawing of a dripping dick lives on. Don't remember him showing interest in art at school." That inspired the first line of a song I wrote in 2002: "A pencilled grey morning, waiting alone at the bus stop/Stray thoughts gathered in and a little bit bored..."
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meganhkmusic
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My main instrument is: Guitar, Vocal
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Post by meganhkmusic on May 13, 2013 10:02:19 GMT
Phones have definitely become great gadgets for quick recordings! People do look at me funny when i suddenly start singing into my phone in the middle of the supermarket though! I supose that's what you get for being a singer-songwriter. Would any of you ever write a historical song? Say one with a real life story behind it. I was talking to a man the other day and he was telling me that he gets a lot of song ideas from past wars that he has incorporated the feelings from the soldiers points of view. I would have thought that would be very hard... I have also been trying to keep my songs simpler. I find myself getting muddled with the lyrics and over thinking what i am trying to say and i have to say it has really helped!
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meganhkmusic
Strummer
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My main instrument is: Guitar, Vocal
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Post by meganhkmusic on May 13, 2013 10:07:01 GMT
My lyrics and melody come at the same time, and I never know what the song is going to be about until it's written. Then it plays constantly in my head until I have everything fine tuned and it's been recorded. Kind of a PITA but it can also be a blessing, I don't have many half-finished songs. Sorry I have no real pointers. If I try to force a song it ends up being terrible, without trying to sound too hippie-ish, they seem to come to me when I'm ready, I can't just sit down and say to myself "it's time to write a song". Very lucky to not have many half-finished songs! I have a notebook filled with random verses, lyrics and chord progressions. One day i'll maybe finally finish some of these songs! I understand completely what you mean here. It is near by impossible for me to just sit down and write a song. They also sound forced in that way.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on May 13, 2013 10:14:57 GMT
Would any of you ever write a historical song? Say one with a real life story behind it. I was talking to a man the other day and he was telling me that he gets a lot of song ideas from past wars that he has incorporated the feelings from the soldiers points of view. I would have thought that would be very hard... I'm always impressed with 'historical story' songs, Megan. I particularly like Dougie Maclean's song about Mary, Queen of Scots which is both historical in content and contemporary in emnotion And, depending on your view of what constitutes 'history', "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" by Eric Bogle is hard to beat but those are just personal favourites. I'm sometimes put off by the research that is needed to write about an event convincingly and, besides, I don't really 'do' serious songs...
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meganhkmusic
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My main instrument is: Guitar, Vocal
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Post by meganhkmusic on May 13, 2013 10:35:48 GMT
I'm always impressed with 'historical story' songs, Megan. I particularly like Dougie Maclean's song about Mary, Queen of Scots which is both historical in content and contemporary in emnotion And, depending on your view of what constitutes 'history', "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" by Eric Bogle is hard to beat but those are just personal favourites. I'm sometimes put off by the research that is needed to write about an event convincingly and, besides, I don't really 'do' serious songs... Wow, i really like the Dougie Maclean song I've never heard that one before. Yes, i have heard of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda". One of my favorites definitely has to be 'The Green Fields of France'. I first heard it when i went on the Battlefields trip to Belgium, where we visited the graves of the fallen in the first world war and the trenches. I remember this song as we sat and listened to it by Willie McBride's grave. It was very surreal, but one of the best experiences I've ever had! I also had the privileged on singing at the closing ceremony which was beautiful. Unfortunately no one recorded it at the time but i later did it again:
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Post by thecorner on May 13, 2013 14:05:56 GMT
That was really lovely, Megan, You have a super, soft voice, that just seems to suit that type of song, and your uncomplicated picking certainly complements the song. Well done.
Do you very often go back to your notebook to move songs forward, or are they primarily there as a resource? It might be a good idea to try to complete a couple of songs by randomly selecting a couple of your verses, lyrics and progressions, and just putting them together to see if they work as a total entity. I occasionally take this approach with a few of my sculptures, and it is surprising what you can come up with by putting a few diametrically opposed ideas together that you would never have thought would work. Maybe worth giving it a try!!
Eric
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Martin
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Post by Martin on May 13, 2013 21:07:08 GMT
Megan, that's a beautiful version of 'Wild Mountainside' Nice, simple accompaniment, showcasing your excellent voice - well done
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meganhkmusic
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My main instrument is: Guitar, Vocal
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Post by meganhkmusic on May 15, 2013 12:54:37 GMT
That was really lovely, Megan, You have a super, soft voice, that just seems to suit that type of song, and your uncomplicated picking certainly complements the song. Well done. Do you very often go back to your notebook to move songs forward, or are they primarily there as a resource? It might be a good idea to try to complete a couple of songs by randomly selecting a couple of your verses, lyrics and progressions, and just putting them together to see if they work as a total entity. I occasionally take this approach with a few of my sculptures, and it is surprising what you can come up with by putting a few diametrically opposed ideas together that you would never have thought would work. Maybe worth giving it a try!! Eric Thank you! It is one of my favorites to play I think i will one day sit down and sort through all of them, you never know there might have been a song there the whole time! Thank you for the advise i'll definitely get onto that!
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