|
Post by vikingblues on Dec 13, 2016 20:12:41 GMT
I'm a lazy sod perhaps! It seems that way anyway .... every time I try and get to grips with a finger-style lesson that requires playing strings in a repeating set pattern to accompany a song, or that needs strict patterns of playing on the bass strings I just get bored and fed up and lose any enthusiasm for the exercise very rapidly. I just find myself drawn to the technique of trying to mould the playing of the guitar to the vocal line so that it underlines the words. With no concious regard given as to which fingers are playing which strings. Any suggestions as to how my enthusiasm could be kindled or what positives I could think of to try to make the fixed pattern learning process worth doing? Mark
|
|
leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,452
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
|
Post by leoroberts on Dec 13, 2016 21:49:09 GMT
Any suggestions as to how my enthusiasm could be kindled or what positives I could think of to try to make the fixed pattern learning process worth doing? Mark Nope. My fingers just seem to do whatever they want to do irrespective of what my brain is trying to communicate to them. Hopefully, Mark, someone else will have a sensible suggestion!
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 33,844
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Dec 13, 2016 21:55:32 GMT
I do tend to use my thumb on the bottom three strings, and fingers 1,2,3 on strings 3,2,1.
Except for the numerous occasions when I don't.
Keith
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Dec 13, 2016 22:34:03 GMT
I do tend to use my thumd on the bottom three strings, and fingers 1,2,3 on strings 3,2,1. Except for the numerous occasions when I don't. Keith Ditto, although as I've become more used to playing varying patterns within the same song (or even verse, or even line) as I've progressed. I find I am using just 2 fingers more than I used to; but still, as per Keith's pattern, pretty much always on fixed strings (again, like him, except when I don't!). I think what may be becoming boring for you is 'simple' repetition throughout a piece which, even with good alternating bass and picking melody, can become routine.
I find more and more that I rarely pick the same piece the same way which, when you're trying to show someone is very frustrating for the learner and challenging for me to try to remember just what the hell I'm doing. I also now very often will mix fingerstyle with another method within a song; verse say fingerstyle, chorus say strum etc. And again vary it.
Variety is the spice of life they say.
Keep going; its worth it.
FFJ
|
|
|
Post by scorpiodog on Dec 14, 2016 11:35:17 GMT
Ooh! Picking patterns! It's a horrible trap! I've spent my whole playing life relying on them, and now I'm trying to develop proper thumb autonomy it's damned hard.
There are some styles that need them (or at least thumb patterns) like ragtime, and some great artistes have used them to great effect (Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell to name just two) but if they are used as a lazy method of fingerstyle accompaniment (as I always have) they're really hard to break.
I'd avoid them like the plague if I were you, Mark. Sounds to me as though your normal approach is a much more successful one.
|
|
leitrimnick
C.O.G.
Posts: 152
My main instrument is: Fylde Oberon
|
Post by leitrimnick on Dec 14, 2016 12:52:36 GMT
Occasionally, I go through an extended routine of exercises akin to five finger exercises for piano. This is Practice, its purpose is, essentially, to make my technique better. It does! When I Play rather than practice I forget about these routines but it is a fact that the effects of such practice feed unconsciously into your playing. Over time I reckon my technique has become cleaner, more positive and everything has become just that bit easier. I notice it in pieces which have phrases which were always awkward to finger but have become significantly less so. There may be other factors at play but I suspect the practice routine I use is the most important.
Just for info the whole thing takes me about 45 mins.
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Dec 14, 2016 19:29:48 GMT
It's comforting to know that I'm not alone in my 'lack of discipline'. I sometimes wish I could get my act together and separate 'practice' and 'play' in the way you mention Nick. I do fear it's at least partly down to my being a lazy sod as I mentioned in my opening post, but it's also because I enjoy 'playing' so much I really want to 'play' every time I pick up the guitar. I think the last time I seriously tried to concentrate on where p, i, m, and a are used was over 40 years ago! But I had more mental energy back then. Interesting Paul that you have invested that time in patterns and structured playing and are now trying to get away from them while I'm wondering whether I should be travelling in the opposite direction. I take as a positive that Keith and FFJ have a basic rule which is often broken. Even more of a positive for me and my lack of discipline is Leos fingers doing whatever they feel like. End results that sound really good by these players suggests these (lack of) methods can have their positive aspects. But coming back to Nicks point that he's found a benefit to cleaner and more positive technique - that does suggest a big positive is possible, and a cleaner technique would be an improvement for me. Maybe I might stumble across a teacher who engages my enthusiasm and also has tricks for making disciplined set patterns more interesting. In the meanwhilst I'll probably just muddle along making it up as I go along! Mark
|
|
leitrimnick
C.O.G.
Posts: 152
My main instrument is: Fylde Oberon
|
Post by leitrimnick on Dec 14, 2016 20:21:23 GMT
I can be disciplined in Practice (I actually quite like it) but am totally undisciplined when it comes to Playing...to the extent that half the time I don't know what my hands are doing, haven't a clue what time/tempo I'm playing in or sometimes even what key. What sounds right is right.
|
|
|
Post by delb0y on Dec 14, 2016 22:17:35 GMT
I like a picking pattern, me! I spend a lot of time practicing specific patterns - currently working on Cannonball Rag with a very definite two bar pattern. I'm also currently practicing a basic Jerry Reed right hand pattern - the first of four that gradually increase in complexity that hopefully, by the time I get to # 4, will start to sound a little like Jerry. I'm happy enough to practice this one pattern for a few minutes a day for several months until it becomes natural and part of my armoury.
|
|
|
Post by sigmadel on Dec 18, 2016 3:16:33 GMT
I have tried in ernest to develop a solid pattern but failed miserably . Like Keith said , I tend to do the same and I use a very fine thumbpick made by Fred Kelly and recommended by a member on here , a while back but as for the other fingers , I use a combination of flesh and nail depending on whether or not I actually have any .
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Dec 18, 2016 8:46:35 GMT
I've always been impressed with the way you can keep a pattern going and still manage to make the songs flow and sound interesting Derek. It does seem to me that it's a tricky task to engage the analytical side of my brain to do the disciplined picking at the same time as trying to let what passes for the creative side of the brain do it's stuff. The latter being tricky enough on its own for me! You mention spending 'a lot of time practicing specific patterns'. Those words 'a lot of time' are key, and that maybe goes back for me to my opening sentence in this thread 'I'm a lazy sod perhaps'. No perhaps about it I suspect. I am currently working on a song where there is a more fixed (albeit simple) accompaniment. I'm interested to see if it can gel into anything worthwhile, or at least worthwhile to my own ears. I hear what you say about "what sounds right is right" Nick and it's a motto I could try to live by quite happily! sigmadel - your opening sentence rings bells loud and clear for me - and your mention of a Fred Kelly Thumbpick reminds me that I used to use one when I had problems with my right thumb that made using flesh / nail impossible. I found it incredibly easy to use and the delrin material to sound quite like a real thumb, and I keep wondering whether I should use one for some pieces of music / songs. Then when I pick up the guitar to play I forget about the idea in my eagerness to play. I agree that is an advantage of using fingers in the more random basis you mention as you can break a fingernail and it's easier to adapt to playing without using that finger for a while. I'm interested to see the mix of responses here - I guess it shows, as usual with guitar, there is no right and wrong way. It is nice to know that I'm not on my own in not following a regulated process - it does seem that way sometimes when so many acoustic guitar lessons are done by teachers that demand that sort of approach. Mark
|
|
|
Post by bob61 on Jan 15, 2017 15:22:27 GMT
I have over the years developed my own fingerstyle techniques which suit me and I feel very comfortable with but I have tried taking lessons and they try to teach me different methods but I find it difficult to change and now i'm convinced i'm unteachable lol. But i'm now hoping to expand my chord knowledge and break out the open positions and hopefully get to use the neck of the guitar a bit more but slowly and surely getting there after what seems a lifetime of not progressing
|
|
|
Post by NikGnashers on Jan 16, 2017 21:56:45 GMT
I thought I could get away with using the old thumb on bottom 3, and three fingers one each on top 3 strings, and not using my pinky.
All was going well until I started learning Black Water Side, which requires me to pluck two of the bottom three strings at the same time in parts, errmmm ....
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Jan 17, 2017 13:42:58 GMT
I thought I could get away with using the old thumb on bottom 3, and three fingers one each on top 3 strings, and not using my pinky. All was going well until I started learning Black Water Side, which requires me to pluck two of the bottom three strings at the same time in parts, errmmm .... Just create your own arrangement that doesn't do this! Mine is fine :-) SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Jan 17, 2017 14:34:36 GMT
I thought I could get away with using the old thumb on bottom 3, and three fingers one each on top 3 strings, and not using my pinky. All was going well until I started learning Black Water Side, which requires me to pluck two of the bottom three strings at the same time in parts, errmmm .... Just create your own arrangement that doesn't do this! Mine is fine :-) SaveSave
Totally agree with Andy. My 'versions' of songs are nearly always a workaround of things I can't do. And there's a lot of them! (As a result, 'my version' of Classical Gas' bears an uncanny resemblance to 'Show me the way to go Home' ...) ....
FFJ
|
|