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Post by vikingblues on May 31, 2017 11:26:58 GMT
So .... acoustic guitar strings that are 13s?
I keep seeing it said that these are supposed to be louder and have more sustain. Is it just me that finds them to be dull and thuddy and lacking in anything other than the fundamental tone?
The Guild Jumbo Junior normally comes with Phosphor Bronze Coated 13s according to the specs. I have put a new set of 13s on and, like the other two times I have tried 13s, I find myself very underwhelmed!
I don't have anything that measures the string guages that accurately but a piece of hardware I use that measures widths of things to less of a fine tolerance suggests that in the shop 12s had been put on it. The tension for the left hand fingers with the new strings does feel like going up a gauge from what was on there before. I do know that the shop I got it from often put new strings on and do an initial setup too before a guitar is put out into the shop. So it's quite possible it was 12s.
Funny conflicting advice on line - in one breath "small bodied guitars should have lighter gauge strings" and in the next breath they say "shorter scale guitars should have heavier strings". The Jumbo Jr is a smaller body AND a shorter scale - maybe the two bits of advice then cancel out and 12s are best.
So I'll get some 12s I think. I just need to decide the basic type of string material and whether coated or uncoated for the best sound. I have no other Sitka Spruce top / maple back and sides guitars so I've no idea how bright or dark sounding the strings should be.
Any thoughts on 13s in general and what end of the warm / bright spectrum of strings a spruce / maple combo might like?
Mark
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Post by andyhowell on May 31, 2017 12:26:37 GMT
They are not louder or I've not noticed they have greater sustain. They do have a fuller and richer sound though. I use them as my default strings for anything fingerstyle.
I've recently put 12's back on my OM, mainly because I found a packet of three sets of strings. I can't decide whether I prefer these for ragtime and country blues, or not. It is certainly easier to bend strings with them but the tone is less.
So, it is about richness of tone rather than volume.
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Post by ocarolan on May 31, 2017 12:29:48 GMT
I'm not a big fan of 13-56 at standard pitch, though i do quite like them tuned down a fret or two.
My Lowden O25 in particular does not like them at standard pitch - all the sustain disappears and the guitar sounds just as you describe, Mark. Various folk have attributed this to the tension "strangling" the top, and inhibiting vibration. No idea whether the explanation is right or not, but the effect certainly happens. Though, seemingly, not for all O25s as some players swear by 13s on them.
I think it's something you just have to take on a guitar by guitar basis Mark - ignore all received wisdom re gauges/body/sizes/scale lengths etc and just experiment.There are always other factors at work that the usual gems of advice ignore.
Oh, and ignore the cliches about wood combos too - there's so much else going on. Maple b/s? Bound to be bright for sure... er, no - I've played some v warm and mellow sounding maple backed geetars.
Half the fun of a new guitar is finding out what strings work for it! Let us know how you get on!
Keith
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Post by mandovark on May 31, 2017 14:19:51 GMT
I think it's something you just have to take on a guitar by guitar basis Mark - ignore all received wisdom re gauges/body/sizes/scale lengths etc and just experiment.There are always other factors at work that the usual gems of advice ignore. I second this. I've experimented quite a bit with different strings over the last couple of years, and the main thing I've learned is that my predictions of what will work best on a particular instrument often don't come to much when I actually try it. So much about string choices comes down to your own playing style. I use 13s because I find they give me a fuller tone for fingerstyle and I can get a slightly more percussive sound on the bass strings when I'm strumming. I have a friend who is a good rhythm player and won't use anything above 12s - he tends to strum more evenly, where I do more on the bass strings, so lighter strings suit his style more. I've become sceptical of any generalisations about how a certain kind of string will sound, because so much is down to the touch and style of the player and the tone of the instrument.
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Post by vikingblues on May 31, 2017 18:28:13 GMT
You're all quite right! It's the combination of player, guitar and strings that lead to the overall sound. So there's no rules that give the answer. I'm just impatient and want a quick fix. I'm glad to hear you've found a similar problem on one of your guitars Keith. Makes me feel less out on a limb. I tried the Guild again tonight and it's definitely got more tension on the new strings - very much so. Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch - that would cripple my left hand. With the strings on it when I bought it I found the tension aspect similar to my wife's GS Mini. The GS Mini originally probably came with Elixir 13s on it, unless Taylor has changed to them from a different sort of string recently, or unless GuitarGuitar changed the guitar set up from factory (unlikely given what they've told me in the past about their practices). Fortunately my better half is organised and she still has the packet cover from the strings she put on the GS Mini. They are 13s, but they're Newtone Heritage 13s. They have the tension of a normal set of 12s, so that makes sense for me as I use Heritage 12s with a tension like standard 11s on normal scale length guitars. She needs a new set of strings herself, so I'll order up two sets and give them a try. It might not work though, because I didn't get on with Newtone Heritage DADGAD strings. Also I am aware that my Tanglewood all mahogany Parlour didn't like Newtone Heritage. However a 20% reduction in string tension sounds a good move to me to at least try out. I will report back. Quite possibly to let you know what I am then going to try! Mark
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Post by andyhowell on May 31, 2017 21:33:38 GMT
I actually find 12s harder on my fingers than 13s!
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 1, 2017 18:15:41 GMT
It's one of the fascinating things about guitar that different players can have very contrasting experiences. Good thing too or it would be dull! I did give the Guild another try this morning, but I found there were notes that I meant to play that ended up a dull clunk as I couldn't find the strength to keep the string down on the fret. A bit of a wimp I guess. But it's a problem I've not struggled with since I started learning guitar - I'll not depress myself by thinking how many years ago that was. Maybe it's also a bad combination of particular strings and particular guitar, but I'm also finding the lack of resonances and lack of complexities of notes is casting gloom over me. I think I'll put it all on a back burner and turn to my other guitars till the next set of strings arrives from Fretsounds tomorrow. Mark
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Post by robmc on Jun 1, 2017 21:33:10 GMT
Hi Mark, I don't use 13s, I recently started using John Pearse PBs 12-53s and I like them. They noticeably feel lower tension than EJ16s or Martin PB Lifespans. They are very warm and more 'shimmery' than most 12s I've tried. Not tone monsters but very natural, if you want/need another option they may be worth a try. I also liked the Lifespans, they were grittier but felt good for coated strings (at least I assume they're coated). Preference for the JPs though.
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Post by ianlp59 on Jun 2, 2017 11:28:24 GMT
Just to throw some confusion into the mix here. I pretty much exclusively use 13-56 EXCEPT I replace the 13 with a 15 on the first string. However, all my guitars with that string configuration are tuned down. A few months ago I tuned my Sobell MS down to CFCFBbC and it loves it. So the whole string tension thing appears to have some bearing on the sound you'll get. That said, there are a huge number of other variables in terms of the instrument, the player, inside leg measurement and whether your nails are acrylic'ed, decorated with ping pong material and super glue or simply bitten down...
It's all good fun though...
Cheers,
Ian
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Post by Akquarius on Jun 3, 2017 18:40:23 GMT
13s for DADGAD, Dropped D and comparables. it's a standard set on my Towet. In fact, Jens Towet customized my guitar for that combination.
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 3, 2017 20:03:49 GMT
24 hours with the Newtone low tension 13s (0.013-0.055). The Guild now feels like it did before I changed strings. It was wonderful to hear notes sing from the guitar again. Also I cannot emphasise how HUGE the difference feels to my left hand finger joints. Of course the tonal qualities overall are a bit different than they were with the strings that were on it when I bought it in the shop. Maybe the next string change will be to more standard type 12s (possibly those John Pearce you mentioned Rob). But what I have got back again is the sustain and the more than just fundamental note character of individual notes. Bottom line is I'm wanting to play the instrument again, and I'm enjoying it. I was a bit dubious if this trial would work because when I tried the Newtone Heritage DADGAD strings (.013-.059) last year I didn't get on with them at all. Anyway, what is certain is it appears that even a shorter 23.75" scale guitar needs either 12s or low tension 13s for me to manage to play it. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions and it's good to be reminded how individual different players reactions are to particular bits of gear! Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Jun 5, 2017 21:54:20 GMT
Stock with Newtone standard 13s - I don't rate the DADGADs as much either.
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Post by Akquarius on Jun 6, 2017 18:01:03 GMT
Elixir Nanoweb Medium 13's here
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Post by tonycash27 on Jun 6, 2017 18:16:19 GMT
Hi - Another vote for Elixir Nanoweb 13's , I don't normally like 13's but I have them on my Yamaha Pub Guitar and always get on well with them and they last forever, I get a booming sound over the sound of 30 singing drunks !!!
Cheers - Tony
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 16, 2017 19:37:04 GMT
Ooops! Sorry, I see there's 3 responses and I've not had the decency to say thanks. So thank you, and I appreciate your feedback guys. I still like the feel of the strings under the fingers using these low tension 13s. I still feel the notes are singing and sustaining better than with the first replacement set of full tension 13s I tried. BUT, oh BUT, the sound is not right, and it's starting to irritate me a lot. I think it's time to try Coated Phosphor Bronze and/or Elixir Nanoweb standard tension 12s. If neither of these work then I know the guitar will not get played much, and I know what action I'll then need to take. Mark
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