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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 5, 2017 0:39:20 GMT
Come on guys, you know new guitars lovingly made by current British builders are by far the best, particularly by those builders who have were lucky enough to be up at Halifax. I have to declare an interest here. Seriously I think we live in a golden age of guitar building, before I started building I played 'golden age' Martins and was always a little disappointed by them compared to some of the newer guitars I was hearing, that's why I started building. I honestly believe that the guitars of all six builders that were at Halifax could stand comparison with any vintage Martin or Gibson etc. Unlike the bowed stringed instruments, guitars do not last indefinitely due to their differing construction, even the great Torres instruments have not lasted, and modern replicas are tonally far superior to the surviving ones (OK I'm biased). Mostly I agree, but factory built guitars, with the odd exception, are not as good as they once were. Very little craftsmanship goes into guitars built by the major manufacturers. It’s all machines now, almost.
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Post by jackorion on Oct 5, 2017 6:58:39 GMT
Come on guys, you know new guitars lovingly made by current British builders are by far the best, particularly by those builders who have were lucky enough to be up at Halifax. I have to declare an interest here. Seriously I think we live in a golden age of guitar building, before I started building I played 'golden age' Martins and was always a little disappointed by them compared to some of the newer guitars I was hearing, that's why I started building. I honestly believe that the guitars of all six builders that were at Halifax could stand comparison with any vintage Martin or Gibson etc. Unlike the bowed stringed instruments, guitars do not last indefinitely due to their differing construction, even the great Torres instruments have not lasted, and modern replicas are tonally far superior to the surviving ones (OK I'm biased). Mostly I agree, but factory built guitars, with the odd exception, are not as good as they once were. Very little craftsmanship goes into guitars built by the major manufacturers. It’s all machines now, almost. Actually, having visited a number of guitar factories as part of my old job working in a guitar shop, there's quite a lot of handiwork that goes into making even the most 'factory produced' guitars. where the lack lies is treating the guitars like individuals - every guitar is made to be the same regardless of the properties of the woods that go into them, so the factory guitars ahve to 'play it safe' with the designs - ie not build too light. This does mean you get the odd dud but, having worked in guitar shops for ten years and played, literally, thousands of acoustic guitars, it's pretty rare to get a real 'dog' from any reputable brand - you might get the odd one that is under-par, but it's still a useable instrument and well-made enough, just not particularly exciting or inspiring (for me that was). Personally I've played far more vintage guitars that were past their past than I've played ones which were better than a good new guitar. I also have to say that, with few exceptions, a lot of the 'mid-range' small luthier guitars I've played had just as many 'niggles' as factory made guitars. Ultimately there are only two kinds of guitars - good ones and bad ones and, mostly, the trusted brands tend to make more good ones than bad ones
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Post by herb on Oct 5, 2017 9:27:50 GMT
Since our first family computer introduced me to the opportunity to read so much about instruments and guitars in particular, I came across the often discussed "red label" Yamaha's of the 70's." Got myself a couple, but because of my very limited abilities offer no comments on their sound quality. Leaving that to you guys. Anyone have an opinion or experience with any of these?
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Post by lavaman on Oct 5, 2017 13:17:00 GMT
I came across the often discussed "red label" Yamaha's of the 70's." Got myself a couple, but because of my very limited abilities offer no comments on their sound quality. Leaving that to you guys. Anyone have an opinion or experience with any of these? I bought a red label made in Taiwan, Yamaha FG180 in 1971 because it was loud, sounded good, was easy to play and was great value at about £45. The body was huge with a very thin solid top which helped give it its characteristic sound. I've always regretted selling it. Fast forward 45 years and I bought another one of the same spec'n from ebay. This one also sounds great but the years have taken their toll. The thin top has bellied up and to make it playable the saddle has been shaved down so that it barely pokes above the bridge. It could do with a neck reset that would be prohibitively expensive as they used epoxy glue. Also, these days the neck is too narrow for my taste. So for me its a nice sounding piece of nostalgia that, hopefully, will remain playable for a couple of years. acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/6736/ngd-nostalgic-purchaseI took it to HB7 and many people liked it. Iain
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Post by earthbalm on Oct 5, 2017 14:43:12 GMT
I came across the often discussed "red label" Yamaha's of the 70's." Got myself a couple, but because of my very limited abilities offer no comments on their sound quality. Leaving that to you guys. Anyone have an opinion or experience with any of these? I bought a red label made in Taiwan, Yamaha FG180 in 1971 because it was loud, sounded good, was easy to play and was great value at about £45. The body was huge with a very thin solid top which helped give it its characteristic sound. I've always regretted selling it. Fast forward 45 years and I bought another one of the same spec'n from ebay. This one also sounds great but the years have taken their toll. The thin top has bellied up and to make it playable the saddle has been shaved down so that it barely pokes above the bridge. It could do with a neck reset that would be prohibitively expensive as they used epoxy glue. Also, these days the neck is too narrow for my taste. So for me its a nice sounding piece of nostalgia that, hopefully, will remain playable for a couple of years. acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/6736/ngd-nostalgic-purchaseI took it to HB7 and many people liked it. Iain Slightly off topic here I know Iain but I have to mention my Shaftesbury Barney Kessel copy bought just a couple of years ago in memory of my first electric guitar - the same model. I feel the same way about it as you do about your Yamaha FG180.
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Post by geddarby on Oct 5, 2017 14:49:12 GMT
This thread could go on forever choosing a guitar is such a subjective matter if the instrument speaks to you and sounds and feels right then that's the one to go for. New or old doesn't really matter as long as it's not played out. I have played two same model Martins with consecutive serial numbers they both sounded good but quite different.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 5, 2017 22:23:44 GMT
I have played two same model Martins with consecutive serial numbers they both sounded good but quite different. The joy of acoustic instruments!
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Post by PistolPete on Oct 6, 2017 11:13:29 GMT
Since our first family computer introduced me to the opportunity to read so much about instruments and guitars in particular, I came across the often discussed "red label" Yamaha's of the 70's." Got myself a couple, but because of my very limited abilities offer no comments on their sound quality. Leaving that to you guys. Anyone have an opinion or experience with any of these? I have a tan label, 'Made In Japan' FG300, which another forum about acoustic guitars tells me is probably 1972. I love it - genuinely think it's one of the best guitars I've ever played, laminate top & all. Plays like the proverbial butter. Although they were twice the price of the FG180 when they were new, these days you seem to be able to pick them up for slightly less, I imagine because fewer people owned them back in the 70s & therefore feel nostalgic for one, which is daft because, although they're broadly the same construction, the finish on them is to a considerably higher standard. Spurred on by my love of the FG300 I picked up a late 60s Red Label Nippon Gakki FG230 12 string in a junk shop. I didn't get on so well with that one. Whether it was down to the years being less kind on the instrument, or the 12-stringiness, I just didn't find it comfortable to play & I sold it on at a small profit around 6 months later.
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 6, 2017 16:14:39 GMT
I used to have a tan label laminate Yamaha (don’t remember the model) which was fabulous. It didn’t have the dynamics of a solid wood instrument but it sounded very sweet. I used it for camping and festivals and the like. I gave it to a friend’s son who wanted to learn guitar. I wish I hadn’t given it away. Properly set up this was a seriously useful instrument.
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Post by robmc on Oct 6, 2017 20:22:41 GMT
All I can say, on the specific question of this thread, is that it would be a disappointing ownership experience to expect your guitar to get worse every day after it was made
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on Oct 8, 2017 13:48:58 GMT
This thread could go on forever choosing a guitar is such a subjective matter if the instrument speaks to you and sounds and feels right then that's the one to go for. New or old doesn't really matter as long as it's not played out. I have played two same model Martins with consecutive serial numbers they both sounded good but quite different. Yup. When I last went looking serioulsy for a guitar - something over ten years ago - I went out with quite a high budget and tried many guitars over a period of weeks, but kept going back to an Ibanez AW1000ECE for around £700. It just sounded like "me" and there was and probably remains (I've stopped playing) something about the neck and set up that lent a fluidity to my playing I never found on any other acoustic. I got it for £550 by the way, by making noises about buying it for half an hour then pretending I was going to walk out of the shop.
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Post by curmudgeon on Nov 11, 2017 0:36:27 GMT
Define "vintage" .. ?
Surely it doesn't really mean much unless you link it with period of time.
I have two (no three) 1990s built guitars, and quite a few 21st century instruments.
Three '60s guitars, and one 1934 Gibson.
Of all of my collection, I bought only three new (one was built for me) and one was a recent purchase - a Waterloo.
One thing I would say is that I like new (or relatively new) versions of older designs - nothing later than about 1934.
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Post by PistolPete on Nov 11, 2017 1:01:09 GMT
Define "vintage" .. ? Surely it doesn't really mean much unless you link it with period of time. I have two (no three) 1990s built guitars, and quite a few 21st century instruments. Three '60s guitars, and one 1934 Gibson. Of all of my collection, I bought only three new (one was built for me) and one was a recent purchase - a Waterloo. One thing I would say is that I like new (or relatively new) versions of older designs - nothing later than about 1934. Vintage was perhaps the wrong choice of word, but I pretty much meant anything that isn't 'new' or 'nearly new', be that ten or a hundred years old. As well as a couple of fine guitars, I own some junk shop classics that wouldn't be 'vintage' in any conventional sense of the word, but I find them far more interesting to have around than a brand new guitar that similar money would buy. That's kind of what I was getting at.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 11, 2017 9:17:18 GMT
One thing I would say is that I like new (or relatively new) versions of older designs - nothing later than about 1934. That makes a lot of sense as the quality of construction can be so much better, a lot more consistent and not built to the same volume.
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
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Post by davewhite on Nov 11, 2017 12:36:57 GMT
Come on guys, you know new guitars lovingly made by current British builders are by far the best, particularly by those builders who have were lucky enough to be up at Halifax. I have to declare an interest here. Seriously I think we live in a golden age of guitar building, before I started building I played 'golden age' Martins and was always a little disappointed by them compared to some of the newer guitars I was hearing, that's why I started building. I honestly believe that the guitars of all six builders that were at Halifax could stand comparison with any vintage Martin or Gibson etc. Unlike the bowed stringed instruments, guitars do not last indefinitely due to their differing construction, even the great Torres instruments have not lasted, and modern replicas are tonally far superior to the surviving ones (OK I'm biased). Mostly I agree, but factory built guitars, with the odd exception, are not as good as they once were. Very little craftsmanship goes into guitars built by the major manufacturers. It’s all machines now, almost. I also have to say that, with few exceptions, a lot of the 'mid-range' small luthier guitars I've played had just as many 'niggles' as factory made guitars. Make sure you choose a tall luthier then - Colin is shorter than me
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