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Post by PistolPete on Jan 18, 2018 16:36:58 GMT
I've just swapped them out on my Yamaha & it seems to have lost some bottom end.
I'm trying to work out if that's all in my head before I swap them back. Apart from anything else I'll be annoyed I made a bunch of extra screw holes fitting the new ones.
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stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Jan 18, 2018 16:46:17 GMT
I'm not an expert, but I would have thought machine heads don't contribute much, if at all, to the sound. All they should do is make it easier or harder to tune and stay in tune. But, as I say, I'm no expert...
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Post by ianlp59 on Jan 19, 2018 19:24:39 GMT
Remove them completely, how does the guitar sound then ? I guess they do add something to the sound... More seriously, good quality machine heads with the right ratio make tuning a guitar a lot more precise. My favorite tuners are handmade ones by Keith Robson, obviously total overkill unless they are being fitted to a really great guitar. That said, my two Sobells have Gotoh tuners which do the job just fine...
Cheers,
Ian
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 19, 2018 22:36:00 GMT
It would surprise me. After all, if you fix a capo to the neck - after the saddle on the headstock it can effect tuning - some people play with strings behind the saddle for effect. So stuff up there can effect tone!
Gotoh tuners are pretty good and cheaper than Robson ;-)
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Post by PistolPete on Jan 20, 2018 11:11:55 GMT
I swapped out the 5 surviving original 70s Yamaha tuners & one Rotomatic that it came with for a set of Gotoh Klusons. It's noticeably lighter with the new machine heads on. Which could account for the change in tone, or just be tricking me into thinking it's different.
I managed to glue the missing tuning key back on to it's tuner with minimal hassle once I'd removed them, which is why I'm now tempted to put them back on to see if the sound really was different with the new machine heads on.
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Post by andyc on Jan 24, 2018 17:42:57 GMT
Can't see how machine heads can have any impact on tone?? Unless you mean pitch?
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Post by PistolPete on Jan 24, 2018 19:14:17 GMT
Can't see how machine heads can have any impact on tone?? Unless you mean pitch? No, I meant tone. Me neither, but I've swapped them back & it's definitely sounding like its old self, so it seems they do. With the new Gotohs I definitely noticed a quicker decay and a loss of some of the low boom that's characteristic of old Yamahas. I don't know why that was (less mass on the headstock? something I did wrong whilst fitting them?) but I'm pretty confident it wasn't in my head now that I've changed them back & it sounds like it used to again.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 24, 2018 19:48:03 GMT
Some machine heads weight, or lack of, can affect tone. I’m not sure how much but you obviously noticed it! Incidentally, I had a Tacoma built Guild D55 which was very headstock heavy but now have a New Hartford model which is much lighter and better balanced, physically and tonally.The tone is not as bass heavy as the old one but I obviously can’t say if it’s down to lighter open gear machine heads as the whole guitar is lighter. Vinny
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Post by earthbalm on Jan 24, 2018 19:50:52 GMT
I'm sure that Nigel K Forster will know the answer to that question.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 24, 2018 22:50:46 GMT
Place a capo behind the saddle (between it and the headstock)and you will change the tone. What happens up there does impact on sound so why not machine heads?
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Post by jackorion on Jan 25, 2018 7:46:57 GMT
you used to be able to get a thing called a 'fat finger' which was a big brass clamp you put on the headstock which would, apparently, shift dead notes and increase sustain etc
I've never seen one but once, in the workshop at Mansons, we had a customer with a guitar where the high G on the A string was totally dead, just 'thunk' with no tone at all... we put a massive U clamp on the headstock and suddenly the dead not shifted to A! Not much use in fixing the problem but it was interesting!
I think the mass of the tuners probably can affect the tone but I'd choose working tuners with less bass over broken ones with more bass!
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Post by minorkey on Jan 25, 2018 10:26:36 GMT
Surely its all in the body, and the soundhole.
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Post by stringdriventhing on Jan 25, 2018 12:00:10 GMT
I've swapped out machine heads on two guitars and the only difference I noted was that the machine heads were better. Admittedly they were both pretty rubbish guitars.
Is it possible that new machine heads might change the angle of the string leaving the nut and thus affecting tone in some way? Probably not. I'm pretty clueless about the physics of the guitar.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 25, 2018 13:46:22 GMT
I've swapped out machine heads on two guitars and the only difference I noted was that the machine heads were better. Admittedly they were both pretty rubbish guitars. Is it possible that new machine heads might change the angle of the string leaving the nut and thus affecting tone in some way? Probably not. I'm pretty clueless about the physics of the guitar. Well, he did say the change was very subtle! SaveSave
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Post by dreadnought28 on Jan 25, 2018 23:34:43 GMT
What is the motivation for changing tuners? With one exception I’ve only changed them when worn out and that was only once. The exception was my 1988 Ralph Bown OM which had banjo tuners that were very hard to adjust. I had a set of open back Waverleys that Ralph fitted for me. Much better for tuning but I don’t recall a change in sound.
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