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Post by andyhowell on Jul 30, 2018 8:11:51 GMT
A few days ago I went to an open mic to play accompanying guitar for a mate. During the whole evening I was the only person not using a music stand !!!
Thoughts team?
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Post by oustudent on Jul 30, 2018 8:14:41 GMT
Does that mean you were playing from memory or you put your music on the floor John
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Jul 30, 2018 8:53:25 GMT
No real thoughts at all. It was an open mic. People can do what they want to feel comfortable about playing/singing in front of others.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 9:01:18 GMT
I am sure the audience would much rather the artist play the music from beginning to end accurately and with no hiccups, and if that means using a stand so be it. It’s not a competition, and if a stand helps that’s fine by me. If I am playing solo I do not tend to use a stand. But in my band, we tend to use stands because the music we play is quite intricate, and learning lots of counter melodies off by heart is tricky. I also have the role of leader/ conductor usually, somhavimg some sort of reference in front of me is good.
I even saw John Williams on TV once using a stand.
I am just wondering what your hold up with stands actually is Andy? Is it because you feel a musician using one is somehow inferior? That because they haven’t learnt their music off by heart somehow the musical experience is less valid? Maybe you feel it just looks naff? Maybe they were too high and covered the artists face? I jest, but seriously, I have no problem with using a stand or seeing others using a stand so long as the musical expression is still there. And maybe that’s the real problem for many musicians- their heads are so buried in ‘reading’ that they forget to add all the other musical nuances that make a performance worth listening too. I have to admit that if I am at an open mic or folk club, the people using music tend to be quite nervous and make lots of mistakes. And on the hole, if I have to use a stand, then I haven’t really learnt the music yet and a piece isn’t yet ready to perform.
But, I would certainly not write off a musician simply because they are using a stand.
Robbie
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Jul 30, 2018 9:08:59 GMT
The "house band" at the Folk Club I play in use them and the most annoying thing for me when I come to play my slot is having to kick them all over so that I can have a space to perform in It does tend to lose that connection with the audience when all of the clearing has to be done,
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Post by oustudent on Jul 30, 2018 9:14:33 GMT
The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra uses them.
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colins
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Post by colins on Jul 30, 2018 9:44:22 GMT
The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra uses them. But the soloist doesn't.
Playing solo I never used a stand or music, even in a consort of four. With a conductor directing, then yes of course, you need the music, especially if your only playing a few bars every now and then. I did on occasion play lute continuo in an early music consort, of about 24 players, but none used music, it's a modern thing when the orchestra grew to the 80+ players of today.
Even in an open mike, you're only playing one or two pieces, how hard is it to learn them beforehand.
Colin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 9:50:30 GMT
The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra uses them.
Even in an open mike, you're only playing one or two pieces, how hard is it to learn them beforehand.
Colin
For some people Colin, very difficult indeed, does that need to stop them from taking part in an open mic? It’s all about building confidence surely? It’s an open mic for goodness sake, not the Albert Hall !! And sorry, but some soloists DO use stands in concertos- particularly if it’s a premier and a tricky modern work to learn. Robbie
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Post by scorpiodog on Jul 30, 2018 10:00:39 GMT
Good title for the thread, this, Andy.
It is fraught with potential conflict, this. Almost as much as which strings are best, or the interminable Taylor/Gibson/Martin debate.
I don't judge others who use them, only myself. I aspire to be able to play all my repertoire without, but I can't. So sometimes I have to use one. So my strategy is always to have one (for a gig), but often it just has my set list on it. Open mics and folk clubs I never use one because it's a pain and one more thing to carry. I just pick something I have up to performance standard. This is all for solo stuff.
With Men In Black we always have a stand, primarily because it gives us something to hang our Men In Black banner from and the tone match for the Bose hangs off it. In fact we think of the music stand as the third member of the band and call him Stan. We don't use mic stands any more so there's no danger of mistaken identity.
Can I just have a word about this argument that orchestras use them. Of course they do, because, even if they are permanently employed with one orchestra, they can be called upon to play any work from a massive body of music of all different types and genres, at the drop of a hat with minimal rehearsal. But go to a concerto, or any work with a soloist, and, usually, the soloist will play from memory. Even something as complex as Bach's Goldberg Variations.
But surely, we're talking about a small ensemble here with a (relatively) small repertoire. The principles applying to a jobbing classical musician or an orchestra don't apply well. The same goes for session musicians who have to pick up quickly in order not to waste recording time.
As I say, I don't criticise others for using them, but I do criticise myself. I wish I could manage without.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Jul 30, 2018 10:02:39 GMT
A few days ago I went to an open mic to play accompanying guitar for a mate. During the whole evening I was the only person not using a music stand !!! If we're going to be all sniffy about people who don't 'put in the effort to learn the words' (which you might not be being - but of which I am definitely one) I'm surprised you didn't tell your mate to sling his/her hook as your mate was probably the only one performing who hadn't even bothered to learn the guitar
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Post by brianr2 on Jul 30, 2018 10:33:49 GMT
Isn’t the end result more important than the process?
Things are difficult enough for those with poor memories and/or performance anxiety, without creating any more barriers. Those who do not need any aids to memory can delight in their good fortune.
Brian
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Post by Wild Violet on Jul 30, 2018 10:54:49 GMT
Those who do not need any aids to memory can delight in their good fortune. Brian I think this is spot on. Musicians without memory problems seem to think that those who use an aid are lazy/incompetent by not learning the song properly. I admit to feeling this way when I was younger, more naive, and more inclined to be judgy. Now that I'm getting older and have occasional complete blanks, I have my lyrics/chords on a tablet to refer to if needed. I've said this before - it seems to be only other musicians that have a problem with it. The general public doesn't give a toss. I only use my tablet at a gig longer than 45 mins. For an open mic or a short set I will just play a song that I know inside out. I seem to have far less blanks when playing a song I learned as a teenager or in my early 20's.
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Post by bleatoid on Jul 30, 2018 11:14:40 GMT
Well, I'm on very, very thin ice here, given my somewhat limited public performance track record (ahem!) - but a total lack of knowledge or relevant experience has never stopped me from offering an opinion before.....
Firstly, on the classical front - it's right and proper for them to have the music - they're trained to read and play from music from day one and they often need to follow long tracts of a piece where they are not playing, then come in at the right spot, on the count, possibly at a point of complete silence - plus it just looks right doesn't it?
If I'm paying to see a non-classical musician or band - I expect them to know their stuff and would prefer to get the sense of an artistic performance directed at me, rather than a recital of what they have written down in front of them. A reminder of the setlist taped to the mic stand seems about acceptable.....
The amateur end of things is different again - whatever they need to get them through a couple of songs would be fine by me at an open mic - I could only admire them for getting up at all - sort of......I can well understand that for many, music stand clutter and changeovers and fishing about through pages of lyrics or scrolling through ipad app stuff etc loses much of the relaxed, informal ebb and flow of a variety of performers just getting up for fun - it almost adds tension to the thing and removes the spontaneity that the whole session is meant to be about. I'd like to think they'd nailed their stuff, and the paperwork was just a parachute.
Peter
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 30, 2018 11:30:22 GMT
No strong feelings either way, if not too obtrusive and the performer is still performing "out" rather than reading continuously. I use one, hopefully relatively discreetly, quite often, though not always. My failing memory for words (- the guitar bits are much less of a problem) and increasing need for occasional prompts is stronger than the "why don't you just learn the words" argument. Trouble is, my also failing eyesight makes it harder to read the damn things. Music stands that stop me seeing the performer and instrument properly are a bit of a turn off, with the sitting-down-and-hiding-behind-the-stand approach being the worst extreme, esp in purely acoustic situations, when it makes it harder to hear as well as see. But even that doesn't niggle me as much as seeing nice headstocks festooned with capos and chooners - esp brightly coloured ones. But that too is yet another Keith
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Post by lavaman on Jul 30, 2018 13:07:27 GMT
A few days ago I went to an open mic to play accompanying guitar for a mate. During the whole evening I was the only person not using a music stand !!! Thoughts team? You obviously forgot to pack your stand Andy. Seriously, I don't mind them for an open mic or folk club singers night. It's an opportunity to see if your new song or your interpretation of a cover works with an audience. If it doesn't, then no need to commit it to memory. For a paid gig then yes I agree you should know it. Iain
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