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Post by soundout on Sept 27, 2018 14:59:47 GMT
OK folks, some more info on the Tone Dexter. Today I set up a “real world” A/B listening test using PA speakers rather than my studio monitors. I’m aware that not all of you have the variety of gear I have. So I set up my twin channel Raven Labs preamp with my usual blend/eq of pickup and mic and listened to my normal sound through a Mackie powered 10” speaker, the kind I use for monitors or small venues. Yes, it was all there as before, the full bottom end, the sparkly high end etc. Then, using the same guitar and the same pickup through the ToneDexter, using the wavemaps I did last week, I listened again. Quality of sound again was all there. If I were to nitpick, I’d say the bottom end was a little less full and the top end a little more prominent (with eq settings flat), but I honestly doubt if anyone else’s ears would have been able to guess which system was which. So there’s instantly a money saving of at least £100 per instrument in terms of mic installation. Worth repeating again that if you want a good but feedback-resistant mic setup in your guitar, you do need to spend real money! Then there’s the convenience factor. I can switch guitars merely by dialling in the required wavemap which I prepared earlier. No level or eq tweaking required, as was necessary on the twin channel setup. Then I set about trying yet more different mics and positions. I could get good results every time but it seemed my original choice was best for my ears. A small diaphragm cardioid or hypercardioid condenser (SE2a). I tried a cheaper mic (AKG perception) and a larger diaphragm than recommended (AKG C3000) and got good results. Mic positioning made much more difference than the actual mic used. Positions resulting in a warmer, more bottomy sound were more prone to feedback, but I was pushing the volume to extremes to do that. (Sorry, Gill next door!) And after all, most of us who use mics in a twin channel setup are using them for high end detail, I think. So there you have it. A game changer without a doubt, to my ears anyway.
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Post by Cams on Sept 27, 2018 15:35:21 GMT
Fascinating thread, which I missed when it was first posted. Thank you so much for putting all this real-world research on the board soundout. There was a time, very recently in fact, when I was playing at least once a week with two guitars and having to use two DIs. Okay, so it wasn't *that* much to carry -- a Venue DI and a Baggs Para Acoustic DI, but the one box thing intrigues me. At the moment I'm playing solo with the Venue DI but then into an Apollo Twin for processing. The Oxford Dynamic EQ plug-in does some realtime processing -- multiband compression and EQ, but it's difficult to dial in. I'm keen to try a Tone Dexter after having read your review, except for the fact that I'm only playing out once a month at the moment so I'm not sure that I can really justify it when what I've got now works pretty well. I do know Bob Thomas -- sold him a guitar in fact, and I know he has a really good ear and knows of what he speaks. Sounds like you do too Alistair.
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Post by soundout on Nov 17, 2018 10:04:07 GMT
Ok folks, more real-life ToneDexter info. I did my first real gig with this a couple of days ago, and you can hardly imagine a tougher test. A rowdy Irish gathering in a golf club, 5-piece band with a small PA at full blast. We were crammed into a corner and I was actually bumping the back of one PA speaker with the headstock of my guitar from time to time! When first plugged in at a setting I had liked at home, we had to roll off loads of bass on my guitar input. But we had to do that on my vocal too, so maybe it was the mixer/PA which was bass-heavy (I was depping, so had never played through that PA). The important thing was that even with all that bass and being 1metre from the front of the speaker, there was no feedback. The sound after killing the bass was the same high quality as I had got at home. All the top end nuances were there. Any more of you got these yet? I’d be keen to know. Cheers Alistair
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 12:00:09 GMT
I always thought the Tonewood amp looked more exciting for acoustic players. Never tried either though. www.tonewoodamp.com/
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Post by soundout on Nov 17, 2018 13:20:01 GMT
I always thought the Tonewood amp looked more exciting for acoustic players. Never tried either though. www.tonewoodamp.com/Hello Gregg. I’ve never heard that Tonewood device and it does look interesting in its own right. But it has an entirely different purpose from the ToneDexter in a performance situation. The fact that, as a festival sound engineer exposed to nearly every way of amplifying acoustic instruments, I have never once come across the Tonewood, confirms to me that it is intended for a different purpose entirely. All the best Alistair Russell
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 18, 2018 21:40:37 GMT
I’ve now played a heap of gigs with my Tonedexter. I never let it out of my sight. It is that good.
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Post by soundout on Dec 3, 2018 12:01:31 GMT
I’ve now played a heap of gigs with my Tonedexter. I never let it out of my sight. It is that good. Good to hear this Andy. As a matter of interest, are you using the ‘standard’ (1-21) wavemaps with feedback processing, or slot 22 wavemaps (less anti feedback) copied across? Cheers Alistair
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Dec 3, 2018 15:19:13 GMT
I always thought the Tonewood amp looked more exciting for acoustic players. Never tried either though. www.tonewoodamp.com/I will be getting a Tonewood Amp in a few weeks Gregg so I'll let you know how I get on it. It is of course a completely different type of gadget than the subject of this thread Phil
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 5, 2018 12:26:41 GMT
I will be getting a Tonewood Amp in a few weeks Gregg so I'll let you know how I get on it. It is of course a completely different type of gadget than the subject of this thread Phil Yep :-) I've used the Tonedexter on many occasions now. It is simply sublime.
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Post by jackorion on Dec 5, 2018 13:30:49 GMT
I will be getting a Tonewood Amp in a few weeks Gregg so I'll let you know how I get on it. It is of course a completely different type of gadget than the subject of this thread Phil Yep :-) I've used the Tonedexter on many occasions now. It is simply sublime. Hi Andy, With your recording setup do you think you could so a video comparing the mic'd guitar, the unprocessed pickup and the tonedexter'd pickup? I'd be intrigued to see/hear that - part of me feels like the tonedexter could be in my future, but I also know I'm a tweak-monster if I get the chance so I think I'd be constantly going 'would it sound better with the mic at 12.5 inches?' or 'is this better than the first map I made?' so I think I'll be sticking with my k&k/grace felix setup for the time being...
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 5, 2018 15:10:46 GMT
jackorionBen, I'll try to. I have, indeed, tried to do it before — I started to produce a video review. I haven't seen many reviews about the practicalities of using it live so I thought I'd cover that. For example, it has no battery power and is too big into into my guitar case pocket. Maybe I got something wrong but it didn't sound good. Which is weird because even when I just rehearse through my AER It sounds wonderful. I might take a feed from the AER next time. I'll have a crack at it sometime over the next few weeks. I suspect when you are playing through a PA it gives you something your brain recognises as different whereas the analytical recording is bit more basic. then again a few days later I realised my pickup bayberry was dying so that might have contributed to it. I'm very happy using it. If you are looking for a pure-isa acoustic sound then this is for you. If you want to drive the pickup/piezzo for that attack then maybe you'd best look elsewhere (although you can set the blend of the digital and the pickup signals). I didn't buy mine completely cold. I spent a while talking to Larry Pattis in the US about them — I've known Larry in the cyber world since before the web! Larry is now using the Tonedeter live, based on the new Ultra Tonic Pickup from James May (of tonedexter). This pickup is supposed to be like a K&K (passive) but with a far clearer bottom end. I've been asked to play something in the New Year which means just instrumentals (some people never learn). Normally I would do this by blending in one of my Beyerdynamics with the Headway EDB 2. However, just rehearsing a bit through the AER the Tonedexter is in the same quality range but without the hassle of the mic. The TD has wave maps that apply extra processing at the end of the learning cycle which is anti feedback focussed. However, there is one setting which omits the anti feedback processing and is therefore the most naturally mic like. In performance I tend to prefer the treated versions but suspect for demo purposes the untreated one is better. I'll see what I can do! But back here I tell you .... ...I have seen the future. I have seen the light. Praise the Lord of Acoustic Guitar Forum.
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Riverman
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Post by Riverman on Dec 5, 2018 17:45:40 GMT
My pickup doesn’t have a bayberry. Perhaps that’s where I’ve been going wrong, eh andyhowell ? Seriously: please stop raving about the Tonedexter. I have too many bloody preamps as it is!
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 5, 2018 17:57:37 GMT
The bay Berry is the clever bit.
When I post the review just don’t listen to it ;-)
(It would suit your sound down to the ground)
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Post by Cams on Dec 5, 2018 21:36:12 GMT
It sounds footery. I imagine a K&K through a Grace Felix would sound amazing. Once you get into the realms of amazing, I suppose we're still looking for that little bit more amazingness? So I'm following this thread with interest, but I'm currently trying to simplify my setup rather than make it more complicated. Once mics come into the equation, the level of complexity jumps a level! By the way, I'm *loving* that Bluesky reverb pedal jackorion. I've just rejigged my pedalboard, but it's basically a Baggs Venue DI with the Bluesky on the FX Send. I've got my first gig with it on Friday and I'm leaving my Apollo Twin Duo and MacBook Pro at home to see how it goes. andyhowell - what's a bay berry?
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 5, 2018 22:01:55 GMT
Battery. I blame Apple :-)
The Tonedexter is I think a game changer. Mic like quality in a single preamp. But you can add to an FX loop to use your Big Sky.
It may not be for everyone but if you want an acoustic sound then it probably is.
Check out the Doug Young review on YouTube and the Tonedexter channel itself.
I don’t want to bang and and bang on about it. You have to do your research and then take a gamble. But I’ll see if I can help.
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