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Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 16, 2019 10:51:44 GMT
Hi all, This will no doubt be old hat to many of you more experienced players who use different tunings but ...
I've dabbled with DADGAD and open tunings and also, following Andy Howell's video, Csus tuning. Enjoyed them but they all require quite a lot of relearning for most chords. And of course I've used drop D (bottom E string) a bit to add oomph to the bass note of the D chord on a few songs. And even very occasionally double drop d.
But I came across a recording of Alexi Murdoch (who I've only recently found and, although his stuff takes a bit of getting used to, I really love) where I couldn't work out what he was playing in but it turned out to simply be dropping the high E string to D. Having had a go at a particular song of his I found the tuning so interesting from a couple of points of view.
--The tuning means that, in the main you can continue playing exactly the same shapes for nearly all the normal chords and, if you don't want to use the top string, then just miss it. --But bringing in the top string in D means that the D chord is easy (simply don't fret the top string); ditto the G chord; A chord just needs a mini bar across the top 4 strings; etc. And its then very similar to standard with little re-learning. --The real joy though is that, playing the top D string on certain chords brings in a range of sus chords which really sound great e.g. play C chord as normal which, with top string in D, makes a C sus2. Even Cmaj7th can then be Cmaj7thsus2. And 'A' played with the top D becomes Asus4. Am7 with top string in D is Am7sus4. Etc etc. Some of these sounds, whether picked or strummed are really great. And the key think is that most of what you've learned in standard tuning still applies.
I've started trying this on quite a few of my 'normal' songs and some sound very interesting. And it's giving me a few ideas for song-writing as well.
Anyway as I say this may be old hat to many but thought I'd share anyway.
For anyone who's interested this is the Alexi M song that uses this tuning; you can hear the high D used as a drone. (The song was on a film track 6 years ago).
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 16, 2019 11:33:32 GMT
... don't think what the chords might be called, John, just play them - you're spot on in just banging away leaving the top e to drone on. If at any time it doesn't sound right in the particular song then is the time to maybe ignore it or add 2 frets to what would be the normal fingering on that string. Certainly for many songs in G, D or C the droney thing is v effective. Why not go mad and drop the bottom E as well? (this might need some different fingering more often though.)
You can mimic the top e drop without retuning by putting a capo on the lower 5 strings at fret 2. Most capos will do this reasonably well. If you need to be higher up for a particular song then put the capo for the lower 5 where you normally would, and another capo 2 frets below to sort out the dropped 1st string.
Looking forward to hearing a song or two of your like this!
Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 16, 2019 11:49:50 GMT
Thanks Keith, some interesting observations. Yes I've had a look at 'double drop d' but it does mean more adjustment to standard. Totally agree with the 'just play the bl**dy thing' principle but nice to know what you're doing occasionally.
I'll definitely try the 5 string capo thing as this avoids messing around with the thin string which is usually the most likely one to break. And the double capo is a good idea too. My son bought me a spider capo for xmas and that may also work.
Why does this damned instrument never stop reminding you that you know so little about it.
J
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Post by andyhowell on Feb 16, 2019 17:44:07 GMT
It can make for a lovely sound. DADGAD is only one step away from that but opens up even more. The more alternate you get the least complex or tight the chords become.
The trick is to look for the 151.
From the bottom DADGAD is
1514
Dropped D or double dropped D
Is 1514.
Concentrate on common bass strings and then play around with the top 2.
I appreciate your thinking though. There comes a point when it just clicks. Honest :-)
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Post by Onechordtrick on Feb 16, 2019 17:55:01 GMT
andyhowell what do you mean by 151 and 1514 please?
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 16, 2019 18:21:51 GMT
DEFGABC = 1234567 in terms of musical intervals. Often expressed in Roman numerals (as in the Nashville chord numbering system) or in terms of eg, G being a 4th above D; A being a 5th above D etc.
Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 16, 2019 18:32:54 GMT
It can make for a lovely sound. DADGAD is only one step away from that but opens up even more. The more alternate you get the least complex or tight the chords become. The trick is to look for the 151. From the bottom DADGAD is 1514 Dropped D or double dropped D Is 1514. Concentrate on common bass strings and then play around with the top 2. I appreciate your thinking though. There comes a point when it just clicks. Honest :-) Hi Andy, Thanks for this; I knew you were a demon on this sort of thing and your note makes more sense of DADGAD now.
The main point I was making though is that, when you've been playing in standard tuning for 50 odd years (apart from a dabble here and there) then DADGAD involves retuning 3 strings out of the 6. That means that my brain has to get used to different positions on almost every chord shape that I play and with 3 strings to worry about I would tend to give up. With only dropping the top string I can continue to play everything else 'as normal' and can also start getting to some new sounds very easily.
Perhaps this will help me on a journey to DADGAD or whatever but one step at a time at my age is about all the brain can take.
Thanks for the explanation and insight. I didn't appreciate the 151 bit either.
John
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Post by Onechordtrick on Feb 16, 2019 18:41:02 GMT
DEFGABC = 1234567 in terms of musical intervals. Often expressed in Roman numerals (as in the Nashville chord numbering system) or in terms of eg, G being a 4th above D; A being a 5th above D etc. Keith Thanks, all falls into place now. I reall6 must spend more time reading that theory book I bought
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stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Feb 17, 2019 7:32:24 GMT
I've used double-drop D on a few songs. Gives a nice chunky sound, and I use Drop D a lot. Must admit I've never thought of trying dropping the high E to D. I'll give it a bash though.
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Post by andyhowell on Feb 18, 2019 9:17:41 GMT
andyhowell what do you mean by 151 and 1514 please? Sort, as Keith said. It’s the intervals that are key rather than the actual notes. For example, in dropped D: From the base DADGBD (151461) Tune down a whole set and you get: CGCFAC but this is still 151461. So take C sus 2. CGCGCD is 151512 Capo this at second fret and you still have 151512 As a way of locating yourself this makes sense. From the base 151 is the same as Dropped D but the top strings are different. DADGAD is one step better - from the base 1514 is the same as Dropped D 1514 so you only have two rope strings that are different. This is the heart of the Martin Simpson alternate tune method - always look for the 151 and you will have your base anchor. Consider an alternate G tuning - your 151 will be simply one string along - 5th, 4th and 3rd strings. This is why G tunings sit heavily on 5 strings rather than 6. The major 5th in this tuning often sits on the open 4th string. The 6th string tends to come into play on 5th fret (which is 1st in G). Hope that is clear. Am happy to share this on video if it would make more sense.
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Post by leoroberts on Feb 18, 2019 14:16:49 GMT
Despite ocarolan AND andyhowell explaining this I still haven't got a clue what's meant. I am a lost cause...
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 18, 2019 16:06:26 GMT
Despite ocarolan AND andyhowell explaining this I still haven't got a clue what's meant. I am a lost cause... Hi Leo,
The 'techies' input is useful and interesting if you want to know the theory, but to keep things simple just go back to my original thread which is to drop the 1st (high E) string one full tone to D and get on with it. This just introduces some interesting sounds without a lot of faffing around and relearning.
FFJ
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 20, 2019 19:52:18 GMT
Despite ocarolan AND andyhowell explaining this I still haven't got a clue what's meant. I am a lost cause... If it's any consolation Leo, I nearly always play in open and altered tunings and I find my head swimming when confronted with explanations of intervals like that!!! Anyway - if anyone finds a tuning that they get on with and it suits them, then it's great and that affinity means an understanding of "why" and "how" isn't always needed.
Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 20, 2019 21:37:05 GMT
Despite ocarolan AND andyhowell explaining this I still haven't got a clue what's meant. I am a lost cause... Let's start at the very beginning A very good place to start When you read you begin with ABC When you play you begin with 1,2,3 The first three notes just happen to be 1,2,3; 1,2,3; 1,2,3,4,5,6,7... Oh let's see if I can make it easier 1- A deer, a female deer 2- A drop of golden sun 3- A name I call myself 4- A long, long way to run 5- A needle pulling thread 6- A note to follow so 7- A drink with jam and bread That will bring us back to 1..... Not quite as clever as the original, but it might help.... With apols to Songwriters: Oscar Hammerstein / Richard Rodgers Do-Re-Mi lyrics © Concord Music Publishing LLCKeith
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Post by bleatoid on Feb 21, 2019 0:44:43 GMT
Despite ocarolan AND andyhowell explaining this I still haven't got a clue what's meant. I am a lost cause... You and me both, sister.
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