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Post by andyhowell on Oct 11, 2019 12:32:12 GMT
Does Pierre Bensusan really need my kickstarter support to produce his new album? Andy, I just checked Monsieur Bensusan's website. Apparently this is not at all a kickstarter thing, but a sponsorship. The album will be released anyway and, according to his website, for a sponsorship of 280 Euros the sponsor's name will be shown in the "patrons roll of honour" inside the album plus it includes the CD and 2 tickets for a concert. For me this has nothing to do with a crowdfunding or kickstart, but mostly with customer retention. I don't want to be pedantic, but I really think your question went in a completely wrong direction. No offence meant, of course. Neither do I but the video I received suggested various of things you could buy into or sponsor. This is effectively the same as Kickstarter. When you Kickstart you are sponsoring. There's nothing wrong with this of course if you want to do it. I'm just getting tired of everything being monetised. I'm just a miserable git.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 11, 2019 15:50:56 GMT
I imagine we’re going to see more and more of this. With seemingly the whole world turning to Spotify, how can anyone pay back the recording costs? Not from CD sales or downloads, that’s for sure. I speak from bitter experience Exactly right, streaming has has a hugely negative effect on income. It’s one of the reasons concert tickets have rocketed in pricing. I’ll do it if I like the artist.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 11, 2019 15:53:06 GMT
I imagine we’re going to see more and more of this. With seemingly the whole world turning to Spotify, how can anyone pay back the recording costs? Not from CD sales or downloads, that’s for sure. I speak from bitter experience Exactly right, streaming has has a hugely negative effect on income. It’s one of the reasons concert tickets have rocketed in pricing. I’ll do it if I like the artist. it’s worth remembering that a lot of talented and relatively well known artists are less than well off, have no job security, no sick pay and no pension.
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 11, 2019 16:08:06 GMT
it’s worth remembering that a lot of talented and relatively well known artists are less than well off, have no job security, no sick pay and no pension. That is certainly true and streaming seems to have made life appreciably worse for them. Supporting them when touring is probably the best way of helping them but I guess as you get older the strain of touring can tell. I wonder now whether anyone makes albums for an income (well not unless they are one of the rare few). Producing your own CD is an interesting project — and I hope yours is going well. But most people are producing CDs to get their music out there. A CD can be sent to a promoter or club host to get a gig. Perhaps, some people even still listen to stuff on the radio. The album seems to have died as a collected and curated form of music. I've had a few conversations with young people who look at me very weirdly if you suggest they should buy 12 tracks (of which 4 or 5 might be mediocre). I guess the short answer is that — for many of us — we produce these things essentially for ourselves. Life as a musician is probably harder now than it has been for a long time. And yet, perhaps counter intuitively, more young people than ever are making music and performing to audiences. Looking back over my time I think he biggest restriction on me and my music was probably smoking in pubs. It meant I restricted how much I did. these days I wouldn't worry as much but then there is often nowhere to go when you have honed your skills. I'm rambling but this musical world has changed greatly. I think one of the tricks today is to add clear value. For example, earlier I posted Michael Watt's new video, the first in the series that takes you through the production of his new album. I think this will be fun to follow and at the end of it I shall no doubt happily buy it. I might even buy a mug if he produces one. On second thoughts, scrub the last idea.
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Post by scorpiodog on Oct 11, 2019 20:06:48 GMT
Blimey, this thread has morphed along all sorts of paths. Crowdfunding through high end guitar envy to hierarchy of fortunes among musicians and now to the changing way musicians make a living.
Addressing only that last theme:
I believe that there will, in future, be very few Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Guns N Roses, Amy Whitehouse or Ed Sheeran. Not as musicians, but as phenomena. These musicians have all become rich because their talent AND their public profiles have coincided to take them head and shoulders above their contemporaries. From now on, the manufactured artiste that catches the public imagination will become ever more prevalent. The reason for this is simple. Public tastes are created by intermediaries who are very good at what they do, and the “natural” ways of creating fashions and trends are choked off by their efforts. This started, arguably, with the stable of artistes promoted by Larry Parnes and his contemporaries and continued with The Monkees, The Spice Girls, Take That, One Direction and, I am sure, many more up to date manufacturees whose names have never sullied my mind or my lips.
The true musicians have already become niche. This is bound to continue as fashions are dictated by money. There will be the odd aberration, as there has always been, but generally mainstream music will become more bland as time progresses. That is unless we get a new punk movement (not a revival, I mean something as new and revolutionary as punk was in the mid 70’s.
That’s sad, but the best will continue to earn a living as side men, teachers and (this is the new bit) content creators.
It’s easy for us to bemoan this phenomenon. But we older folks will continue to promote the music of our youth until we die. And then it will likely be forgotten. It’s always been thus.
Making a living from music is hard. It has always been hard. Becoming rich at it is as unlikely as becoming rich as a professional sportsman. It’s just that the medium has changed. This is evolution in action, and no matter how we weep and wail and gnash our teeth, the changes will come.
I am now going back into my little sheltered world of favourite artistes and styles. I shall batten my doors and windows and will ignore the tide of mediocrity that is swamping society.
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Post by robmc on Oct 11, 2019 23:41:06 GMT
I think there's still a market for highly idiosyncratic / niche bands... Tool or Nine Inch Nails for example are very unique and are massive. It's tough for one man or woman and his guitar to do that, the only one I can think of who can is Ed Sheeran (but he's not niche he writes crowd pleasers and nothing else, fair enough!). Anyway not the original question sorry
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 12, 2019 8:42:18 GMT
I was chatting to Larry Pattis yesterday who I have known since the earliest days of usenet groups. I asked his about streaming. He tells me he’s earned my from streaming than has ever done from CDs. He will still produce CDs as promotional tools but not income tools.
Nice to know!
Larry is a fabulous fingerstyle player in the DADGAD tradition. Check him out.
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 12, 2019 9:47:10 GMT
I believe that there will, in future, be very few Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Guns N Roses, Amy Whitehouse or Ed Sheeran. Not as musicians, but as phenomena. These musicians have all become rich because their talent AND their public profiles have coincided to take them head and shoulders above their contemporaries. From now on, the manufactured artiste that catches the public imagination will become ever more prevalent. The reason for this is simple. Public tastes are created by intermediaries who are very good at what they do, and the “natural” ways of creating fashions and trends are choked off by their efforts. This started, arguably, with the stable of artistes promoted by Larry Parnes and his contemporaries and continued with The Monkees, The Spice Girls, Take That, One Direction and, I am sure, many more up to date manufacturees whose names have never sullied my mind or my lips. The true musicians have already become niche. This is bound to continue as fashions are dictated by money. There will be the odd aberration, as there has always been, but generally mainstream music will become more bland as time progresses. That is unless we get a new punk movement (not a revival, I mean something as new and revolutionary as punk was in the mid 70’s. Very well said. M<y own add on would be that while it gets harder for musicians the profits from distributers and publishers goes up! My fault for the divergence. But I'm in that kind of mood ;-)
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 12, 2019 9:52:29 GMT
I think there's still a market for highly idiosyncratic / niche bands... Tool or Nine Inch Nails for example are very unique and are massive. It's tough for one man or woman and his guitar to do that, the only one I can think of who can is Ed Sheeran (but he's not niche he writes crowd pleasers and nothing else, fair enough!). Anyway not the original question sorry The always has and always will be, however, life gets harder and for professional musicians — for whom this is their income and their life — things get so much harder as they get older. I travel all over the country by train a lot. Every few years or so I find myself sitting next to Martin Carthy who also travels everywhere by train. Martin is, of course, one the most celebrated musicians in his genre and seems as something of a national treasure by many. Last time I met him I was returning to Birmingham from Carlisle. He got on around Warrington or Wigan where he had been gigging. He told me his next gig was in Wiltshire. This involved a train to Bristol, a train to Bath and then an almost two hour taxi journey to some place in the middle of nowhere. He looked knackered. During the journey he started taking phone calls from the family. He explained that Norma was very ill in hospital. The calls were all about arranging visits and were horribly familiar to anyone who has been in that position. But many of us would have been in the same place while Martin was having to struggle on. Of course, he would have given a great performance as you would have expected from such an old pro. But I couldn't help thinking, what a shit way of life!
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 12, 2019 11:23:09 GMT
I was chatting to Larry Pattis yesterday who I have known since the earliest days of usenet groups. I asked his about streaming. He tells me he’s earned my from streaming than has ever done from CDs. He will still produce CDs as promotional tools but not income tools. Nice to know! Larry is a fabulous fingerstyle player in the DADGAD tradition. Check him out. Good friend of mine
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Oct 12, 2019 13:17:20 GMT
I was chatting to Larry Pattis yesterday who I have known since the earliest days of usenet groups. I asked his about streaming. He tells me he’s earned my from streaming than has ever done from CDs. He will still produce CDs as promotional tools but not income tools. Nice to know! Larry is a fabulous fingerstyle player in the DADGAD tradition. Check him out. Good friend of mine And ?
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Post by jonnymosco on Oct 12, 2019 18:53:49 GMT
Grammy award winner Andrew York did exactly the same a couple of years ago. Seems like established artists want to take ownership of their careers.
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 12, 2019 18:54:49 GMT
I don't know how any acoustic player that plays DADGAD, and very rarely with vocals, can make a living! Ask most music listeners if they like Pierre Bensusan and be prepared for a blank stare. Or if they have heard him comments likely to include words like "boring". On Amazon looking at CDs - Pierre has "Intuite" - 6 reviews, and that's his CD with about the most number of reviews. Martin Carthy manages a 20 reviews CD. Martin Simpson "Vagrant Stanzas" 37 reviews. James Taylor - manages a 252 reviews CD. Taylor Swift's "1989" has 1228 reviews, and Ed Sheeran has "÷" with 1,256 reviews. Ever felt out of step with the world! Mark
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Post by andrewjw on Oct 12, 2019 20:41:57 GMT
I don't know how any acoustic player that plays DADGAD, and very rarely with vocals, can make a living! Sarah McQuaid doesn't do too badly...fine taste in guitars too..
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 12, 2019 22:43:12 GMT
And ? We both suffer from psoriatic arthritis and have helped each other obtain treatment and medication.
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