slim
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
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Post by slim on Oct 19, 2020 15:56:40 GMT
Hi all,
First post here! So, I like playing silk and steel strings (am I off to a bad start?), but given their tension is about halfway between normal steels and nylons I am probably not getting the best out of them when I put them on my Martin flat top. Essentially, my Martin will be massively overbuilt for the tension. So I had the idea of putting them on a classical guitar. I had heard most factory guitars are overbuilt so I figured an overbuilt classical might be able to handle the higher than normal tension and might equate to a very lightly build guitar. A cheap classical was purchased and, much to my friends surprise, the thing didn't fold in half when I strung it up. I was really pleased with the sustain and responsiveness, and it suits my light touch. This Frankenstein-of-a-guitar is still going strong 6 months on. However, I don't really get on with the width of the nut and radius of the fretboard, and there is a lower mid-range hump I'm not keen on (this was present with the nylons strings but has been exacerbated by the silk and steels). This was an experiment and overall I've been pleasantly surprised by the results. It's left me hungry for a proper guitar for this string 'platform'.
My question is, are there any factory made flat tops optimised for the tension of silk and steel strings? I'm not in a position to commission a custom build from a luthier (and most likely never will be). I know Cordoba do a range of nylon cross-overs with truss rods. I've not played one and so am not sure of the fingerboard radius/nut width and tonal properties. Does anyone have experience of these and whether one would make a good starting point for experiment number 2?
Ta, Slim
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Oct 19, 2020 16:49:52 GMT
Hi slim, and welcome to the Forum - hope you'll have fun here. Your silk and steel experiments seem to be going in the right direction, though as you surmise, I also doubt any off-the-peg steel string acoustics are designed to be at their best with silk and steel strings. I haven't any experience of the Cordoba crossovers, though if the neck is likely to suit you it could well be a good basis for your next experiment. Just another though, beginning with a question! Do you like silk and steel because of the looser tension and easier to pay aspect of them? If so, you might find that a short scale steel string guitar with Newtone Heritage strings would give a low enought tension for playability yet still enough tension to make the most of the guitar. The Heritage series are specifically designed for lower tension despite having similar gauges to ordinary steel strings. Certainly more tension than silk and steel, but a noticeable reduction in tension from conventional steel strings. Keith
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slim
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
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Post by slim on Oct 19, 2020 18:01:17 GMT
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply. It is indeed the looser tension and easy playing aspects I like, so I will give Newtone Heritage's a go when I next change strings on my Martin. I've not tried them before having always stuck with D'Addario or Elixir's when deviating from the silk and steels. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Akquarius
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Post by Akquarius on Oct 19, 2020 18:02:34 GMT
Slim, I have a Cordoba Fusion. I don't know Silk & Steel strings, but if they have ball ends you may have trouble to fix them to the bridge. It's made for nylon strings. At least the bridge on my Cordoba is.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Oct 19, 2020 18:11:18 GMT
Slim, I have a Cordoba Fusion. I don't know Silk & Steel strings, but if they have ball ends you may have trouble to fix them to the bridge. It's made for nylon strings. At least the bridge on my Cordoba is. Fitting them should be the least of your problems. I fitted some Rotosound ball ends to my nylon string guitar and the strings just go through the holes in the bridge. Didn’t like the tone but that was the strings I think rather than how they fitted. I’d be more worried about the extra tension.
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slim
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
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Post by slim on Oct 19, 2020 19:53:22 GMT
Tension was not such a concern when I was experimenting with a £60 guitar but put a zero on the end and it would definitely be weighing on my mind. Maybe I've had beginners luck with the first experiment. Maybe it's only good for another 6 months and then the belly will bulge up or the bridge lift. Who knows. I wouldn't like to destroy a good guitar, that's why sourcing a guitar built for the job would be my first choice.
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Post by otis1960 on Oct 19, 2020 23:10:14 GMT
I second the recommendation for the Newtone low tension strings; for quite a while they were the only way that I could play (given the gammy state of my hands). They are not particularly expensive, so definitely worth a go in a couple of gauges. If you do try them, make sure you follow the instruction not to trim the string until it is up to tension, as they are wound on round cores. (probably some comment about grandmothers and eggs on the way)
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slim
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
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Post by slim on Oct 22, 2020 13:44:21 GMT
A pack of Newtone strings arrived yesterday and are settling in very nicely, so thanks Keith and otis1960 for the recommendation.
I think in the long run I might be best looking for an old parlour which would be well matched to low tension silk and steels.
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Post by jangarrack on Oct 22, 2020 15:34:59 GMT
From my own experience, I would certainly follow the advice of ocarolan and otis1960. I used silk and steel on a Martin OM28 which I was hoping to make a bit easier on the fingers. They were easier to play, but didn't work so well for me soundwise so I changed them for Newton Heritage which worked surprisingly well, easy to play and sounded great. Conversely, I also used silk and steel on a K Yairi parlour guitar and they suited it very well, lovely mellow sound and greatly improved the playability.
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Post by otis1960 on Oct 22, 2020 22:29:44 GMT
My experience matches yours, jangarrack: Silk & Steels seem to sound correct on smaller-bodied guitars, but to be lost on a larger body. I have an original Faith Mercury natural that sounds at its best with silk and steels
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Post by Matt Milton on Oct 23, 2020 8:52:38 GMT
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slim
Sore Fingers
Posts: 13
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Post by slim on Oct 23, 2020 18:22:48 GMT
I've never tried them. I had always stuck with light gauge then switched to silk and steels out of curiosity. I will give some a go when I next change, or maybe try some extra light nanowebs (10-47). Funny thing is, I started as an electric player and worked up to using 11's. I'm going in the opposite direction now with the acoustic.
Great suggestion. They all seem to have 48mm nut widths which would definitely be a big improvement upon my ex-classical's 52mm. The two-way truss rods should keep things ship shape. The ovation inspired model has a 400mm radius on the fingerboard which sounds ideal (I'm not sure about the others on this front).
This looks very nice. I've always fancied a small bodied all-mahogany acoustic and this would fit the bill very well. Did you do anything to yours since you got it; tweak the setup or change the nut, saddle, or machine heads?
Thanks for the suggestions
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