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Post by michaelwatts on Nov 22, 2020 11:26:27 GMT
Hello everyone
Following on from my video of a Bog Oak guitar by Jamie Swannell here is a beginner's guide to the wood. I hope you enjoy it!
All the best
Michael
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2020 8:56:36 GMT
I've played a few bog oak guitars now by a number of luthiers. I have to say that — so far — I've not been completely convinced but it may be that tere were guitars built by builders who were getting to grips with these woods. As you say there is something about the top end but the bass and lower mids can seem over powering and muddy to me, and this comes over in the video. It is a stunning looking wood and I've always been intersted in it; not sure I would commission one though!
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colins
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Post by colins on Nov 23, 2020 9:58:14 GMT
I've used bog oak on a number of guitars, but as finger board and bridge material, and as bindings etc where it is a very good. I've not used it as a B&S wood as the sets I've handled never really spoke to me. There are so many B&S woods that do their job really well, the search for novel woods like Bog Oak is maybe just not really needed.
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Nov 23, 2020 11:55:40 GMT
but the bass and lower mids can seem over powering and muddy to me, and this comes over in the video. Which is uncanny given what it has been buried in for the last 5,000+ years
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 23, 2020 20:50:08 GMT
but the bass and lower mids can seem over powering and muddy to me, and this comes over in the video. Which is uncanny given what it has been buried in for the last 5,000+ years I was trying to be diplomatic Dave :-)
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Post by malcolm on Nov 28, 2020 22:18:03 GMT
I played a bog oak Lowden in August and it was very expensive and very disappointing.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 29, 2020 9:46:26 GMT
I played a bog oak Lowden in August and it was very expensive and very disappointing. Nice to know I am not alone !
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stringdriventhing
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Post by stringdriventhing on Nov 29, 2020 10:29:14 GMT
I played a bog oak Lowden in August and it was very expensive and very disappointing. Was it bogging?
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Nov 29, 2020 10:58:06 GMT
Just to be clear my comments were a response to andyhowell choice of words that I couldn't resist I'd have no hesitation in using a suitable set Bog Oak for back and sides and have made other guitars using "bog standard" oak which is a mighty fine tone wood and in my eyes a beautiful wood in it's own right. I can see how the source and creation process of Bog Oak gives it an added mystique along with the darker colour and other makers such as Fylde, Brook, Lowden have used it - this is Roger Bucknall's take on itmichaelwatts I enjoyed the video but a question for you - I'm intrigued to know how many Bog Oak back and side acoustic guitars you have played and what criteria you used to calculate/estimate the difference in degree of "vitreous/glassiness" of the Bog Oak used on the guitars as alluded to at 2m57s to 3m in the video.
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Post by PistolPete on Nov 29, 2020 19:18:00 GMT
Can any of the luthiers here tell me what the environmental and sustainability impact is when using bog-wood to make guitars? I appreciate our tropical hardwoods are rapidly running out, but moving to a semi-fossilised substance that only exists in severely limited quantities and takes thousands of years to mature doesn't instinctively feel like a step in the right direction to me as a casual observer.
I also recently heard a report about the catastrophic effects on habitats and CO2 release that draining peat bogs during the 80s and 90s had, even as part of a well-intentioned government scheme to plant more trees.
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Post by andyhowell on Nov 30, 2020 9:46:07 GMT
Can any of the luthiers here tell me what the environmental and sustainability impact is when using bog-wood to make guitars? I appreciate our tropical hardwoods are rapidly running out, but moving to a semi-fossilised substance that only exists in severely limited quantities and takes thousands of years to mature doesn't instinctively feel like a step in the right direction to me as a casual observer. I also recently heard a report about the catastrophic effects on habitats and CO2 release that draining peat bogs during the 80s and 90s had, even as part of a well-intentioned government scheme to plant more trees. A good question. The luthiers may have a take on this.
In normal times I'm a very keen hill walker and walking across high peat bog it is not unusual to see ancient trees emerging from the bog. MOre often than not these days this is because of heavier erosion and the mosses and lichens have been discouraged. There is a movement to re-green bogs to stop erosion, not least as this releases heavy amoutns of CO2 into the atmosphere. But I guess this means we will see less bog oak.
So, it seems to me that while this is a natural material it's avilability is possibly the result of draining and/or erosion.
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Nov 30, 2020 13:28:21 GMT
Can any of the luthiers here tell me what the environmental and sustainability impact is when using bog-wood to make guitars? I appreciate our tropical hardwoods are rapidly running out, but moving to a semi-fossilised substance that only exists in severely limited quantities and takes thousands of years to mature doesn't instinctively feel like a step in the right direction to me as a casual observer. I also recently heard a report about the catastrophic effects on habitats and CO2 release that draining peat bogs during the 80s and 90s had, even as part of a well-intentioned government scheme to plant more trees. I don't know Pete. I've only used small pieces - fretboards, bridges, bindings - sourced from the East Anglia Fens and as I understand it a bi-product of farming rather than an active recovery industry. Cursory Googling hasn't thrown up any huge outcry about it in ecological terms. What I did find is that there are huge "bog areas" in the USA, Africa and Eastern Europe/Siberia where there are concerns about CO2 release and future management. I did come across one article that seemed to suggest a more active recovery industry in the Ukraine but this seems geared at the bespoke furniture market and arts collectors rather than the musical instrument making industry. The effect on the planets eco systems from individual luthiers I suspect is tiny.
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colins
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Post by colins on Nov 30, 2020 14:51:43 GMT
Yes Like Dave, the information I have from the supplier is that the bog oak we use in the UK comes as a byproduct from the fens, farmers ploughing up trunks as part of the normal process, apparently in the past they just dumped it on the side of the field. At least now it is having a second life rather than just rotting away once exposed. I believe some is also recovered during the maintainance of the Norfolk Broads, themselves of course a man made environment, albeit historical. I have also build a guitar using Ancient Kauri from New Zealand, this is buried wood that goes back 40-50K years and was actively 'mined' for a large part of the 19th century, some of the logs discovered were of incredible size. I visited a Kauri museum in New Zealand in 2018 which still had some of the 19th century logs, the biggest being 23ft in diameter. This wood is used to make fine furniture and is much sought after, makes a superb guitar as well, with a surface that twinkles in the light. It is also still found by normal farming, as is the Kauri resin which is much like amber. The growing trees were still being harvested in the 1960s, but are now highly protected, you are not even allowed to walk in the areas they are growing as they have very surface roots that can be damaged. One of the last harvested trees. a plank from an Ancient Kauri Tane Mahuta, the largest growing Kauri, considered a sacred tree by the Mauri. Colin
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Post by PistolPete on Dec 1, 2020 15:42:02 GMT
Thanks for the responses. I was aware instrument making is small fry in the scheme of timber users compared to the construction trade and big furniture makers, but it's nice to know that a lot of the bog oak being used is a by-product of farming, and not the result of people draining bogs to look for it. So, how many guitars do you reckon you could get out of a 23-foot Kauri log colins ?
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Post by fuzzbox on Dec 1, 2020 16:22:04 GMT
It's great that a byproduct can be used, but I do think it's like saying Bengal tigers are delicious. You can guess what would happen next. Conversely, Japanese knotweed is edible but nobody eats it.
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