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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2021 23:45:19 GMT
Well, there are "great players" and there are discerning players who require the ultimate in tone and quality. So many well known players are known for just playing the guitar, but Renbourn, Carroll and Simpson will go down in history as the greats of fingerstyle guitar; they are not interested in bling or hype, just great tools which enable them to express themselves. So, it means a lot that they choose (chose) Ralph's guitars. Jonny Are we having an argument? If so can you tell me what it's about? I feel like you're disputing something with me but I have no idea what it is.
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Post by andyhowell on Feb 15, 2021 11:09:38 GMT
I must admit I don't understand the distinction between great players and discerning players.
These are fine guitar makers we are talking about but I think Dave may be suggesting that this list great makers is often wider than yiu would think from some of this discussion. I'm slightly bemussed by this narrow focus as nobody ever seems to mention people like Nick Benjamin, Richard Osborne, Kelday and the like.
Even the greats can produce a guitar that ocassionally moves me very little! And of the discerning players listed there at elast a couple of them have played guitars following commerical endorsement deals. There's nothing wrong with this of course as people have to make a living; but it's not all purity and incorubtible values.
Talent will out as they say up North. But there is far more talent around than you'd think from a lot of these debates!
A good friend of mine — and a very fine guitarist — had a calssical guitar made by onenof the best names in the country. She decided she wanted a steel string and her luthier recommended one of these makers listed here. I'm not sure what hapepned here but I know this guitar well and I think it is a shocker !!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 11:50:04 GMT
This is almost worthy of a new thread or two. What makes a great guitar? What makes a great guitarist? Is a Bown objectively better than a Gibson? Is fingerstyle objectively superior to strumming or accompanying a singer songwriter or playing rhythm guitar in a band? Is discernment the better part of performance? Does anyone really care?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 12:04:57 GMT
I must admit I don't understand the distinction between great players and discerning players. These are fine guitar makers we are talking about but I think Dave may be suggesting that this list great makers is often wider than yiu would think from some of this discussion. Yep. That's it. I would also suggest that handmade guitars from corporations can be very fine instruments. Lakewood and Lowden come to mind but (and I admit I'm biased) a top end Yamaha (if you can persuade them to build you an LS86) or Larrivee will also stand up against boutique luthiers. I know. Heresy right? But I can only go with what my ears tell me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 12:50:23 GMT
Finally I'd like to add that I'd swap a kidney for a Ben Wilborn guitar so Ben, if you read this forum and you ever find yourself in need of a transplant you know where to come.
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Post by andyhowell on Feb 15, 2021 16:55:01 GMT
I know. Heresy right? But I can only go with what my ears tell me. Not really :-)
The guitar as an investment thing doesn't do it for me. I think it was Californian luthier Jeff Traugott that said buy as good a guitar as you can afford and then stick with it — it takes a long time to coax it into life and understand its nuances. That's certainly my experience. However, we are all different and as they say variety is the spice of life.
Certainly companies and boutique makers can produce guitars ever bit as good as an individual luthier. I have played two guitars in the last ten years that knocked me out — and through Halifax and similar places — I have been lucky to play a few.
The first was a Casimi from South African that I simply can't describe — the eventual owner is on here somewhere. The second was an Eric Skye 00 from Santa Cruz, indeed I've played two of these and they are astonishing guitars.
But even a more humble guitar can sound wonderful in the hands of a good player. Here is fellow Brummie Jon Wilkes knocking out a tune on his old Yamaha.
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Post by andyhowell on Feb 15, 2021 17:03:48 GMT
What makes a great guitar?
Magic and years of experience I guess :-)
What makes a great guitarist?
Talent and years of hard practice :-)
Is a Bown objectively better than a Gibson?
Objecrivity hardly comes into it :-)
Is fingerstyle objectively superior to strumming or accompanying a singer songwriter or playing rhythm guitar in a band?
Nope.
Is discernment the better part of performance?
If you mean the ability to self edit then probably (but I have always taken the view that it is too much like hard work).
Does anyone really care?
I would say no but for the unescapable fact that I keep finding myself in this same discussion ;-)
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Post by malcolm on Feb 15, 2021 19:38:55 GMT
I have played one of Ralph's guitars which was simply wonderful. It was a 000 with a chunky neck and wide string spacing and I still regret not pushing myself into buying it. However, I have played a couple more Bowns which, while very nice guitars, I wouldn't be prepared to pay the price for them. When we are talking about handmade instruments I sincerely believe it comes down to the specific instrument, some are great and most are simply good, irrespective of brand.
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Riverman on Feb 15, 2021 19:44:32 GMT
What makes a great guitar? What makes a great guitarist? Is a Bown objectively better than a Gibson? Is fingerstyle objectively superior to strumming or accompanying a singer songwriter or playing rhythm guitar in a band? Is discernment the better part of performance? I don’t know the answer to any of these questions. What I do know, is that sunburst guitars are better than natural top guitars. That’s all I know really. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 20:22:08 GMT
I don’t know the answer to any of these questions. What I do know, is that sunburst guitars are better than natural top guitars. That’s all I know really. Sorry. It's funny because I somehow missed out a sentence at the start of that post and only just noticed. It was meant to start with "This makes me want to post a whole load of new threads." In my own hamfisted way I was trying to point out that different purposes require different guitars and that the idea of "best" in music is often at best subjective and at worst irrelevant. But you're right about sunburst guitars. I've wanted one for ages. I've got five guitars and none of them are sunburst. None of them are even black. I've let you down, and let the forum down and most of all I've let myself down. I'm sorry for that.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 16, 2021 9:51:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 10:12:13 GMT
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Post by forestdweller on Feb 16, 2021 10:26:05 GMT
Not sure that clip would convince me of the ACOUSTIC merits of a Bown- as much to do with Clive’s choice of pickup, preamp and AER amp, as well as how that clip was recorded (straight from the desk for instance?). What I do know is that Clive loves his Bown- he once told a funny story in a concert of how when he toured America he took his Bown to a local shop to have a bit of a set up on it and they plek’ed it- apparently totally ruined its playability! Another funny story about Bown himself- a friend of mine Chris Whitfield (think he used to be on this forum) ordered a Bown many years ago- it took quite a few years for him to actually get round to building it! He cocked the the first attempt by cracking the mahogany sides when bending them! Bit of a recluse Ralph by all accounts- even knocking on his door doesn’t guarantee he will actually answer it. Here is Chris playing the guitar that was eventually built for him (I think!). Much better idea of the acoustic sound of a Bown OM I think
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 16, 2021 11:21:43 GMT
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 16, 2021 11:23:04 GMT
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