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Post by surfguy13 on Apr 26, 2021 14:31:28 GMT
Just wondering if anyone had come into contact with an Oxwood guitar?
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 27, 2021 6:59:15 GMT
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Post by surfguy13 on Apr 29, 2021 7:51:45 GMT
Aha, I didn't see this video.....I had watched an interview by one of the guys at Dream Guitars with Brad of Oxwood which was interesting but I get the impression he produces fairly small numbers of guitars.
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 29, 2021 8:37:52 GMT
Aha, I didn't see this video.....I had watched an interview by one of the guys at Dream Guitars with Brad of Oxwood which was interesting but I get the impression he produces fairly small numbers of guitars.
Most of these individual luthiers or smaller boutique makers only ever produce small numbers. For a single luthier you might jsut be talking 10-20 a year (with 20 being the high end). Others can bump this up using shop workers and CNC machines and so on but numbers remain tight because of higher quality thresholds.
I don't think a higher quality necessarily means a better sounding guitar but a luthier can tailor a design to your own playing style, preferences to do with playability, neck width and so on. Indeed, it seems to me one of the skills of a good luthier is to be able to interpret your own preferences in terms of sound and playabilty. And we are all different. For me sound and playability are more important than decoration, which of cpurse adds time and cost — but for some people asthetics are very important particulalry when we are talking about collectables.
Of all the guitars around at the moment I would like to play, Boucher Guitars is top — simply because they sound astonishing in the clips I have heard. I guess my issue with Oxwood or Boucher would be what they actually sound and play like which is why I personally won't buy blind. That being said a good luthier — even remotely — should be able to translate preferences into one of their models, combinations of woods and so on. Around here and on many forums the fingerstyle guitar gets a lot of reference — great string seperation and so on. But you guitar style might prefer something less analytical !!!
At these forusm — and at specialist dealers — I've been lucky enough to play a lot of very high end guitars over the last years. They are all great but I can't see any preference in my choices for individual or boutique luthiers. In no particular order these are the ones that have stood out.
Santa Cruz Eric Skye OO — I've played two of these now. For me absoute perfection.
Casimi middle sized body — I can still feel it resonating!
Brook Baritone — played at the old Ivor Mairants. I very nearly bought it only to find it was snapped up the next day by one of REM.
Turnstone Guitars — small bodied, cypress top and cherry I think — now owned (or was) by Martin
Adrian Lucas Pergola — all mahagony and one with a spruce top
Steve Agnew OOO — spruce and walnut I believe. Steve is a low profile luthier operating in Scotland but the only other traditional 000 I have played that has been as impressive has been from Froggy Bottom.
Lowden S cutaway — one of the new range — I'm not normally a Lowden fan but boy was this the most superb fingerstyle guitar.
Others would have very different lists. There have been many other great guitars from Taran, Greenfield, Kostal, Flyde, Bown and so on but for some reason these stick out — and they are all sonically different and would suit different style, which means they might not be for me. For ecxample, I used to play a lot of ragtime and country blues. Two guitars stand out as being stunning for that style, one from Froggy Bottom and one from Collings — but I simply wasn't looking for that sound at the time.
So, Oxwood could be superb — they certainly sound good. Whether it would be for you depends on a whole ,oad of other factors.
Of course, the elephant in the room is me and my playing. I'm not sure I have enough quality to have got a decent sound out of some of these and so maybe my own limitations as a player limit my price range even more than budget! For years I wanted a Sobell and even arranged to travel up and buy on 20 years or so ago only for a major piece of computer kit to blow up and which had to be replaced. I'm kind of pleased about this now as I, personally, find Sobell's difficult to play and if you don't get maximum enjoyment from it what is the point.
Wow, a bit of a ramble. I'm off to find a dark room!
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Post by surfguy13 on Apr 29, 2021 10:11:09 GMT
Aha, I didn't see this video.....I had watched an interview by one of the guys at Dream Guitars with Brad of Oxwood which was interesting but I get the impression he produces fairly small numbers of guitars.
Most of these individual luthiers or smaller boutique makers only ever produce small numbers. For a single luthier you might jsut be talking 10-20 a year (with 20 being the high end). Others can bump this up using shop workers and CNC machines and so on but numbers remain tight because of higher quality thresholds.
I don't think a higher quality necessarily means a better sounding guitar but a luthier can tailor a design to your own playing style, preferences to do with playability, neck width and so on. Indeed, it seems to me one of the skills of a good luthier is to be able to interpret your own preferences in terms of sound and playabilty. And we are all different. For me sound and playability are more important than decoration, which of cpurse adds time and cost — but for some people asthetics are very important particulalry when we are talking about collectables.
Of all the guitars around at the moment I would like to play, Boucher Guitars is top — simply because they sound astonishing in the clips I have heard. I guess my issue with Oxwood or Boucher would be what they actually sound and play like which is why I personally won't buy blind. That being said a good luthier — even remotely — should be able to translate preferences into one of their models, combinations of woods and so on. Around here and on many forums the fingerstyle guitar gets a lot of reference — great string seperation and so on. But you guitar style might prefer something less analytical !!!
At these forusm — and at specialist dealers — I've been lucky enough to play a lot of very high end guitars over the last years. They are all great but I can't see any preference in my choices for individual or boutique luthiers. In no particular order these are the ones that have stood out.
Santa Cruz Eric Skye OO — I've played two of these now. For me absoute perfection.
Casimi middle sized body — I can still feel it resonating!
Brook Baritone — played at the old Ivor Mairants. I very nearly bought it only to find it was snapped up the next day by one of REM.
Turnstone Guitars — small bodied, cypress top and cherry I think — now owned (or was) by Martin
Adrian Lucas Pergola — all mahagony and one with a spruce top
Steve Agnew OOO — spruce and walnut I believe. Steve is a low profile luthier operating in Scotland but the only other traditional 000 I have played that has been as impressive has been from Froggy Bottom.
Lowden S cutaway — one of the new range — I'm not normally a Lowden fan but boy was this the most superb fingerstyle guitar.
Others would have very different lists. There have been many other great guitars from Taran, Greenfield, Kostal, Flyde, Bown and so on but for some reason these stick out — and they are all sonically different and would suit different style, which means they might not be for me. For ecxample, I used to play a lot of ragtime and country blues. Two guitars stand out as being stunning for that style, one from Froggy Bottom and one from Collings — but I simply wasn't looking for that sound at the time.
So, Oxwood could be superb — they certainly sound good. Whether it would be for you depends on a whole ,oad of other factors.
Of course, the elephant in the room is me and my playing. I'm not sure I have enough quality to have got a decent sound out of some of these and so maybe my own limitations as a player limit my price range even more than budget! For years I wanted a Sobell and even arranged to travel up and buy on 20 years or so ago only for a major piece of computer kit to blow up and which had to be replaced. I'm kind of pleased about this now as I, personally, find Sobell's difficult to play and if you don't get maximum enjoyment from it what is the point.
Wow, a bit of a ramble. I'm off to find a dark room!
Not a ramble at all, fascinating! You have really put it in a nutshell and I agree totally with everything you said. I have really come to that conclusion myself, but only recently. The fear of buying blind, regardless of the source, really does worry me to the point that I really don't feel I'm prepared to consider anything that I can't first try. I am lucky enough to have the option of a beautiful OM from a local luthier but before I press the button I feel I need to try a couple more guitars. Frankly I do not enjoy the process of buying a guitar, particularly when it will be the only acoustic I own, and so I really do want to try and get it right this time. However, I have to say that it takes me 6 months or more of playing a 'new' guitar before I really know if it is going to suit me. Turning up at a shop, or trying a guitar at someone's house for an hour or two, just doesn't give me much more than a vague impression. The Oxwood I can try if I can manage to get down to the depths of Sussex and persuade someone to give me lift. Not easy at the best of times! However, there is so little information about the guitars and the two clips (of the OM) that I've seen are a little unconvincing. Probably just down to how they were recorded more than anything else but there seemed to me to be a slight lack of bottom end. To an extent I agree about 'the elephant in the room' but although I am far from being a great player, I can recognise a really amazing guitar when I play one and even if I am unable to do it total justice and I am encouraged to pick it up more readily than I am an average guitar. I think they are also more inspirational. Many years ago I owned a Collings OOO-2H which sounded sublime but, like your experiences with Sobells, I found it extremely difficult to play. Really no idea why. However, back in 1999 I spent the best part of a day in the basement at Ivor Mairants trying virtually every acoustic they had.....and they had a lot. There were 3 stand out guitars from Froggy Bottom, a company I had never heard of. Bizarrely all were in the sale too! I walked away with a mahogany/spruce Froggy D and it was the only guitar I have ever owned where I really did know almost instantly. Incredibly useful to have the list of makers and models. Loads of food for thought there and really appreciate your input!
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 30, 2021 7:09:22 GMT
surfguy13 It is a very different experience ordering from a luthier. I remember going to pick up the guitar and wondering what I would do if I didn't like it! What I really appreciated was being able to visit my luthier and play to him —he was able to see and understand what I was doing with the guitar. He also asked me to bring with me my favourite guitar and talk about what was good or not so good about it. I focussed on the nexk which was a litlte too thin and hey presto the coimmissioned guitar ended up having a far better neck for me! It is a fascinating experience and I wouldn' discourage anyone from going down this route if it is available to them. I quickly realised a few other things. FIrstly, I shortlisted a number of luthiers who were quite distant from me. I quickly realised I wouldn't be able to visit them easily and for me this was a significant factor in making a final choice. From the moment I played the luthier's own guitar I knew I would be happy. I guess you can mirror much of that interaction online but — once you can move around again — I felt this to be important. Secondly, the guitar should be a step up in order to inspire you to play and maybe play a little better. But there is no point in taking something that is not strong in terms of the styles you want to play. FInally, I realised there was no point in going for a very really analytical or revealing style of a guitar. Some people canplay Sobell's and make them really sing. But I can't :-)
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Post by surfguy13 on Apr 30, 2021 13:16:32 GMT
surfguy13 It is a very different experience ordering from a luthier. I remember going to pick up the guitar and wondering what I would do if I didn't like it! What I really appreciated was being able to visit my luthier and play to him —he was able to see and understand what I was doing with the guitar. He also asked me to bring with me my favourite guitar and talk about what was good or not so good about it. I focussed on the nexk which was a litlte too thin and hey presto the coimmissioned guitar ended up having a far better neck for me! It is a fascinating experience and I wouldn' discourage anyone from going down this route if it is available to them. I quickly realised a few other things. FIrstly, I shortlisted a number of luthiers who were quite distant from me. I quickly realised I wouldn't be able to visit them easily and for me this was a significant factor in making a final choice. From the moment I played the luthier's own guitar I knew I would be happy. I guess you can mirror much of that interaction online but — once you can move around again — I felt this to be important. Secondly, the guitar should be a step up in order to inspire you to play and maybe play a little better. But there is no point in taking something that is not strong in terms of the styles you want to play. FInally, I realised there was no point in going for a very really analytical or revealing style of a guitar. Some people canplay Sobell's and make them really sing. But I can't :-) It is something I have never done before and although I have an option on an OM from my friend and luthier Richard, that is a ready made guitar. Like you, my feeling has always been that it was a bit of a gamble. My other concern was that if I had a guitar commissioned I would expect to, and be happy to, pay a fair price given the extra work on the part of the luthier to translate your requirements. However, if it really turned out not to be what I had hoped or expected then there is the thorny issue of having to sell it and I know that this is never easy, particularly if you have the guitar built to your specifications. Your comments about trying to buy a guitar 'online' are oh so true and I think that goes for a commissioned build or an off the shelf guitar. We have all become much more reliant on the internet in the last 10 years or so and particularly in the last year! It has become abundantly clear to me that there is no way that I can buy an acoustic unseen and therefore that limits me to this area at the moment, or possibly London and I can train it in within an hour.
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Post by skyetripper on Apr 30, 2021 13:50:52 GMT
Fascinating thread and interesting thoughts from andyhowell and surfguy13. I held off placing an order for a luthier built guitar for quite a while for most of the reasons discussed; Would I like it when it was completed? Are you buying without trying? Am I a good enough player to justify it? Etc etc.
I'd only ever bought one other acoustic guitar unseen (my Larrivee) which was a lovely guitar but ultimately didn't suit me, so I fully understand the reservations. As andyhowell has said, Sobell's in particular have a reputation of needing to be played in a certain way, so this added to the pressure. However, I paid my money and made my choice and have absolutely no regrets. One year on, the guitar has opened up beautifully and I actually find it more difficult to play other guitars now! It is still at it's best if played 'strongly' but it is just as happy being played more gently, and I think (!) my technique has improved because I have adapted to the guitar more. I suppose the point of my comments are that guitars are always a matter of personal choice, but so long as you are buying from a reputable luthier, the guitar is almost certainly going to be built how you want it to be and for me it has been a great experience to enjoy the guitar more as it has opened up. I know I've adapted my playing a bit to the guitar, but I also think the guitar has adapted to me as well. (Even though I still don't think I'm a good enough player to justify it!!)
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Post by surfguy13 on Apr 30, 2021 15:49:57 GMT
Fascinating thread and interesting thoughts from andyhowell and surfguy13. I held off placing an order for a luthier built guitar for quite a while for most of the reasons discussed; Would I like it when it was completed? Are you buying without trying? Am I a good enough player to justify it? Etc etc. I'd only ever bought one other acoustic guitar unseen (my Larrivee) which was a lovely guitar but ultimately didn't suit me, so I fully understand the reservations. As andyhowell has said, Sobell's in particular have a reputation of needing to be played in a certain way, so this added to the pressure. However, I paid my money and made my choice and have absolutely no regrets. One year on, the guitar has opened up beautifully and I actually find it more difficult to play other guitars now! It is still at it's best if played 'strongly' but it is just as happy being played more gently, and I think (!) my technique has improved because I have adapted to the guitar more. I suppose the point of my comments are that guitars are always a matter of personal choice, but so long as you are buying from a reputable luthier, the guitar is almost certainly going to be built how you want it to be and for me it has been a great experience to enjoy the guitar more as it has opened up. I know I've adapted my playing a bit to the guitar, but I also think the guitar has adapted to me as well. (Even though I still don't think I'm a good enough player to justify it!!) It's really great that you decided to go with your gut instinct and order a Sobell and I'm delighted that it's been such a success! I see you are in Hexham so Sobell are really just around the corner from you which must have made the whole process feel so much more comfortable. Strangely my wife and I moved to Slayley in the early 80s as I was a forestry contractor and we needed a base for the winter months. I noticed a chapel just down the road from us and it turned out that this was the Sobell workshop. With each guitar and bass I have ever owned I have had to adapt to the instrument and as previously mentioned in this thread, that process normally took me a minimum of 6 months, so, as you say, if you have a guitar made for you, to your specs, then that process of adapting should be a great deal easier. I think I would struggle to know exactly how to spec a guitar; putting into words the feel and the sound I wanted would be extremely challenging! However, as andyhowell said, a good luthier will be able to translate what you need by how you play. I am starting to wonder if this is maybe a route I'd like to try. I tried the OM my luthier built last year, along with two other guitars he'd made, and it blew me away. Felt and sounded almost perfect and I didn't play it for very long at all. It was just instantly comfortable, sounded very sweet and the neck felt just right. If that could be improved upon then I think that would probably be a guitar I could grow old with!
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 30, 2021 16:23:40 GMT
surfguy13 skyetripperThere are two extremes of thinking about this. One extreme woudl be the real collector who lookms to build up a collection and loves tyring new things — Jeremey The Guitar Hunter on YouTube for Example. The second extreme is relying on one guitar. That OM and that Sobell may keep you happy for the rest of your life. I am happier relying on one guitar. A guitar will not only lead you on but it will change of adapt your style — least that is what happened. to me. I'm nowhere near exhausting, or mastering, this guitar. However, it seems important to see that neither of these two extreemes is wrong or better than the other. We are all different and get satisfaction from different things. I've got three guitars at the moment but I only play one.I might spend some money on the other two before moving them on. Maybe a small body would be good at the moment but I may well just hold on to my main guitar. I can't help thinking that I'm not getting any younger and I might just hang on to what I have !!!
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Post by dreadnought28 on May 1, 2021 0:02:01 GMT
I have a Sobell New World, it's one of my never sell guitars. It is outstanding in certain open tunings, I can play it for hours and completely forget the time, food, drink, meetings etc etc. However It's not a guitar I ever use in standard tuning or in open G or D. I have others that I personally prefer by some distance in those tunings. Also it's not a guitar I'd ever use with a pick (plectrum), it doesn't work at all with one of those. If I was taking just one guitar to a gig it would always be something more traditional.
Horses for courses.
Having a guitar bullt for you is no guarantee that you will bond with it when it arrives. But that's all part of the magic.
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Post by surfguy13 on May 1, 2021 10:05:07 GMT
surfguy13 skyetripper There are two extremes of thinking about this. One extreme woudl be the real collector who lookms to build up a collection and loves tyring new things — Jeremey The Guitar Hunter on YouTube for Example. The second extreme is relying on one guitar. That OM and that Sobell may keep you happy for the rest of your life. I am happier relying on one guitar. A guitar will not only lead you on but it will change of adapt your style — least that is what happened. to me. I'm nowhere near exhausting, or mastering, this guitar. However, it seems important to see that neither of these two extreemes is wrong or better than the other. We are all different and get satisfaction from different things. I've got three guitars at the moment but I only play one.I might spend some money on the other two before moving them on. Maybe a small body would be good at the moment but I may well just hold on to my main guitar. I can't help thinking that I'm not getting any younger and I might just hang on to what I have !!! I think I fall into that second extreme. I cannot ever remember having more than one acoustic at any given time but that is probably because I have mainly played bass for the last 50 odd years but have always played guitar. I agree totally that if your focus is entirely on one guitar there really is no end to how far you can go with it. However, that one acoustic has to be right. On occasions over the years I have had 2 or 3 solid body and semi-acoustics at any one time and I have always had more than one bass. Personally I find that the more instruments I have the more I keep chopping and changing and that can be a negative. It's the same with guitar amps. Although I really love dreadnoughts and O or OO sized acoustics, they don't work for everything although they can do what they do incredibly well. This is why I have come to the conclusion that I need an OM or a possibly a OOO if I am going to live with one guitar and in order to hit that middle ground. However, then scale length comes into it which is another decision! I have really bad arthritis in my hands, particularly in my right hand, and so maybe the shorter scale on an OOO might be better. After a lifetime of playing Precision basses I have been forced to revert to a short scale bass and although I miss the 34" scale, the lower string tension has made a huge difference.
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Post by surfguy13 on May 1, 2021 10:06:58 GMT
I have a Sobell New World, it's one of my never sell guitars. It is outstanding in certain open tunings, I can play it for hours and completely forget the time, food, drink, meetings etc etc. However It's not a guitar I ever use in standard tuning or in open G or D. I have others that I personally prefer by some distance in those tunings. Also it's not a guitar I'd ever use with a pick (plectrum), it doesn't work at all with one of those. If I was taking just one guitar to a gig it would always be something more traditional. Horses for courses. Having a guitar bullt for you is no guarantee that you will bond with it when it arrives. But that's all part of the magic. With a lifetime of playing behind you and 44 guitars that says a hell of a lot about Sobell guitars!
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Post by jwills57 on May 1, 2021 23:20:55 GMT
Hey, One and All--I know quite a bit about Oxwood Guitars. I commissioned a matching set from Brad when I retired. This was about 10 years ago, one Alaskan white spruce/cocobolo and one cedar/cocobolo. The guitars were absolutely incredible, stunning to look at and to play. The Alaskan white spruce was the best single spruce-topped guitar I have ever played, and I've played hundreds of guitars from shops and luthiers large and small. There wasn't a flaw anywhere on either guitar. You could tell Brad takes a great deal of pride in his general craftsmanship and attention to detail. The cedar/cocobolo had a huge, blooming sound, kind of Lowden-like but with a bit more punch. The white spruce/cocobolo, as I mentioned, was just indescribably good in every way. Brad was incredible to work with, a true gentleman and true professional. He communicated often, sent lots of pictures, wanted to make sure I was 100% satisfied, which I obviously was. Rats to the American health care system--got some unexpected, rather substantial medical bills and had to sell several guitars, including Brad's, to cover the cost. But I wouldn't hesitate to commission another. Hope this helps. Best, Jack
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Post by surfguy13 on May 3, 2021 8:33:50 GMT
Hey, One and All--I know quite a bit about Oxwood Guitars. I commissioned a matching set from Brad when I retired. This was about 10 years ago, one Alaskan white spruce/cocobolo and one cedar/cocobolo. The guitars were absolutely incredible, stunning to look at and to play. The Alaskan white spruce was the best single spruce-topped guitar I have ever played, and I've played hundreds of guitars from shops and luthiers large and small. There wasn't a flaw anywhere on either guitar. You could tell Brad takes a great deal of pride in his general craftsmanship and attention to detail. The cedar/cocobolo had a huge, blooming sound, kind of Lowden-like but with a bit more punch. The white spruce/cocobolo, as I mentioned, was just indescribably good in every way. Brad was incredible to work with, a true gentleman and true professional. He communicated often, sent lots of pictures, wanted to make sure I was 100% satisfied, which I obviously was. Rats to the American health care system--got some unexpected, rather substantial medical bills and had to sell several guitars, including Brad's, to cover the cost. But I wouldn't hesitate to commission another. Hope this helps. Best, Jack Many thanks for your input Jack, very much appreciated. You are the first person I have spoken to that has owned an Oxwood. It is clear that Brad is a stand up guy and also makes really high quality guitars which is great to know. The two guitars you had made sound wonderful and I feel for you having to let them both go......I guess that highlights one of the many benefits of living in the UK with a national health service! I sincerely hope you manage to get to the point where you are able to consider commissioning another from Brad.
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