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Post by alexkirtley on Dec 23, 2015 0:46:37 GMT
This guitar has always felt a bit tight, especially when comparing it to other boutique guitars such as Sobells and the like. It may be in part to the straight, unscalloped bracing, but I'm curious as to the top cletes The top has a few cletes down the center seam, there is one that is really quite substantial just below the bridge plate (pictured), more substantial than I think really necessary, were the clete to be shaved down, is it wise to assume this may help towards freeing up the top slightly?  |
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Dec 23, 2015 9:50:50 GMT
There will be others on here who know about guitar construction that will perhaps answer your question fully but I would not think shaving that cleat or any cleat will make a noticeable improvement to sound Alex.
Phil
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
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Post by colins on Dec 23, 2015 10:40:44 GMT
Alex, I would think that that cleat would have absolutely no influence on the way the top reacts, compared say to the large hardwood bridge plate just above it, the cleat or any number of cleats would be inconsequential.
A number of things either on their own or in combination can influence the way a top reacts. Start with the piece of wood the top itself was made from, was this thinned to the right thickness for the actual sample of timber; how has it been braced, are the braces to wide, too high (more important) do the lower legs of the X brace terminate before the linings or are they inlet into the linings. What is the angle of the X-brace, too closed and it can restrict the movement in the lower bout also how close to the soundhole is the X brace origin? Overly large tone bars, especially if they are also inlet into the lining can restrict the lower bout. The fact that the braces are not scalloped is not important, some of the best makers in the world do not scallop braces, including Dave and myself, Oh and that bloke Lowden, but they do need to be 'tuned' and graduated correctly towards their distal ends. Has the top been thinned towards the edges?
Then of course there is the most important brace, the bridge, how heavy is it, what is its footprint? What wood is the bridge made from, ebony can kill some frequencies. Then we can move on to the saddle slot, is the saddle making good even contact over the whole of the bed of the slot, router bits can leave slight radiuses along the bottom edge of the slot, if the saddle had not had the corners slightly dressed to match is the saddle making proper contact?
Braces can be shaved, normally by making them more triangular in profile to reduce their mass, but boy does it make a mess of your forearm, can be sore for days! It's not something that should be undertaken lightly.
Of course it could be the neck that is at fault, don't forget that the strings are attached to that as well, does it have a high damping factor?
But to answer your question simply, no shaving the cleat will have no effect.
Colin |
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francis
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Post by francis on Dec 23, 2015 11:11:56 GMT
The cleat(s) are there to stop (try to) the centre joint opening - leave as is
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Post by alexkirtley on Dec 23, 2015 12:35:08 GMT
Alex, I would think that that cleat would have absolutely no influence on the way the top reacts, compared say to the large hardwood bridge plate just above it, the cleat or any number of cleats would be inconsequential.
A number of things either on their own or in combination can influence the way a top reacts. Start with the piece of wood the top itself was made from, was this thinned to the right thickness for the actual sample of timber; how has it been braced, are the braces to wide, too high (more important) do the lower legs of the X brace terminate before the linings or are they inlet into the linings. What is the angle of the X-brace, too closed and it can restrict the movement in the lower bout also how close to the soundhole is the X brace origin? Overly large tone bars, especially if they are also inlet into the lining can restrict the lower bout. The fact that the braces are not scalloped is not important, some of the best makers in the world do not scallop braces, including Dave and myself, Oh and that bloke Lowden, but they do need to be 'tuned' and graduated correctly towards their distal ends. Has the top been thinned towards the edges?
Then of course there is the most important brace, the bridge, how heavy is it, what is its footprint? What wood is the bridge made from, ebony can kill some frequencies. Then we can move on to the saddle slot, is the saddle making good even contact over the whole of the bed of the slot, router bits can leave slight radiuses along the bottom edge of the slot, if the saddle had not had the corners slightly dressed to match is the saddle making proper contact?
Braces can be shaved, normally by making them more triangular in profile to reduce their mass, but boy does it make a mess of your forearm, can be sore for days! It's not something that should be undertaken lightly.
Of course it could be the neck that is at fault, don't forget that the strings are attached to that as well, does it have a high damping factor?
But to answer your question simply, no shaving the cleat will have no effect.
Colin I thought as much  I've re-voiced a top before so one day I'll get in and make a few adjustments to the braces cheers |
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Post by alexkirtley on Jun 1, 2016 22:34:02 GMT
Just realised I never updated this thread, I did make some adjustments but avoided anything major, the problem I found was that the braces (both the X and the tone bars) very still very substantial when they reached the linings, by scalloping off the ends, freeing it up around the perimeter but leaving the majority of the brace, it did help liven up the top quite a bit, the bass sounds less muffled and its overall better sounding, I feel a bit bad for modifying it but I believe it was worth it
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Jo whoever he is.
