Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 5, 2016 23:53:51 GMT
Can someone help me? I have read that the Roland AC-33 can be used as a monitor, but I don't really understand how. The band has a big mixer and a Maui PA system not unlike my Fishman soloamp - the kind that is supposed to sit behind you so you don't need a monitor. Even so, I can't hear myself and it's frustrating. I'd like to use the Roland purely as a monitor if possible. Can anyone give me clear, non-techy simple steps on how to make this work? If it's not possible, is there an inexpensive alternative? The guy who "runs" the band knows how to make this particular PA work but is not really a sound guy and looked blank when I asked him about it. www.sweetwater.com/store/media/ac-33_om.pdf
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 6, 2016 0:09:59 GMT
Can't hear what? Guitar or voice or both?
p9, panel 12 on the manual Lynn. Use the L(mono) line out from your amp into the band setup. It says the amp master volume doesn't affect the line output so you can tweak the AC-33 volume to suit your onstage needs and let your soundbloke take care of the level in the main mix. It would seem from the manual that this output is post-eq, so any changes you make to the tone controls onstage would also be heard in the line output. And if you're using guitar and voice through the Roland then the balance you have on the amp will be reflected in the final mix and not be adjustable independently later on in the chain. This may be OK or may not. You'll need to try it to find out.
Alternatively, if it's just guitar that's the problem, to have total control over your onstage monitor sound you could use the right sort of DI box to split your guitar signal, taking one out to your amp, and the XLR out to the band gear.
Keith
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Post by scripsit on Mar 6, 2016 0:54:48 GMT
What Keith said: whatever you plug in to the Roland (mic and guitar, or just one of them) can be adjusted to your taste in volume and EQ pointing directly at you. Then the line out on the back takes a balanced signal to the main PA mixer. As Keith noted, the EQ you adjust and the balance of the two signals, if you do this with both guitar and voice, are then set by you and there is not much that can be easily adjusted at the PA except the volume of this pre-mixed signal. The Roland preamps are fairly clean, so I wouldn't imagine this is much of an issue, although you might want the guitar (if any) wound back in the monitor so that your sound person can easily lift your vocal when necessary.
I use my Roland as a monitor for the guitar alone, and find it more convenient to take a signal from my guitar preamp directly into the Roland (the preamp I use has a guitar jack output and an XLR output as well), while the main preamp line out, a balanced signal after EQ, uses a mic cable to go to the PA. This has the advantage that the Roland monitor is not affecting the PA signal at all, and you could try this with just the voice signal if hearing your singing is the problem.
Kym
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Wild Violet
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 6, 2016 11:24:32 GMT
I can't hear either the guitar or my vocals very well, there are times I'm not even sure if I'm singing the right harmony. I'd like to not plug the mic or guitar directly into the Roland, can I keep them plugged into the mixer then to the Maui PA but still hear myself (and the others) through the Roland by just using the line out? I guess the "line out" thing is confusing me, I didn't really understand it when I read the manual. There are 5 of us and it would be really helpful to hear the whole mix at the same time.
I feel like such an idiot, but could either of you post a link to the cable I would need to go from the Roland line out to the PA? Or would it go to the mixer?
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Post by scripsit on Mar 6, 2016 12:19:11 GMT
The 'line out' is normally what is called a balanced signal. On the Maui (with which I'm not familiar), there is probably a line out which will take a normal microphone cable (an XLR connection). If you plug this in to one of the normal channels of the Roland (the inputs on the Roland will take both normal guitar cables and XLR/microphone cables) you will have the total mix the same as going through the PA, but you will be able to adjust the volume you hear using the Roland controls. This might be what you are looking for, although there will be the entire band's output coming through your monitor.
A better option, if your band is using a normal mixer, is to investigate whether you can run a cable from the mixer to the Roland, perhaps picking up just your vocal channel. If the mixer has separate lineouts for every channel, you could take your vocal signal to the Roland, too (using the second input on the Roland).
Kym
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Wild Violet
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 6, 2016 13:27:16 GMT
A better option, if your band is using a normal mixer, is to investigate whether you can run a cable from the mixer to the Roland, perhaps picking up just your vocal channel. If the mixer has separate lineouts for every channel, you could take your vocal signal to the Roland, too (using the second input on the Roland). Kym Thank you! I don't want to hear just my vocal though, I want to be able to hear everyone together.
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Mar 6, 2016 14:35:29 GMT
I don't want to hear just my vocal though, I want to be able to hear everyone together. Get the band to buy a Bose L1 system or equivalent...and forget monitors , foldback etc etc Simples!
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 6, 2016 14:46:15 GMT
Get the band to buy a Bose L1 system or equivalent...and forget monitors , foldback etc etc Simples! That's exactly what the LD Maui is. The pubs we play in are pretty small and it often has to go off to the side of us rather than behind, making it very hard to hear exactly what is coming out of it. I already own the Roland so was hoping to find a solution where I could use it as a monitor rather than having to buy something else.
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Mar 6, 2016 14:54:03 GMT
Get the band to buy a Bose L1 system or equivalent...and forget monitors , foldback etc etc Simples! That's exactly what the LD Maui is. The pubs we play in are pretty small and it often has to go off to the side of us rather than behind, making it very hard to hear exactly what is coming out of it. I already own the Roland so was hoping to find a solution where I could use it as a monitor rather than having to buy something else. Ok.. Assuming the LD Maui has a post mixer line out , take the signal from that into your Roland and put it in front of you angled up towards you and slightly away from the side the LD is facing [to prevent feed back] and adjust the vol on the Roland so you can hear what you are doing. Nothing worse than being not able to hear what you are singing ...particularly with harmonies..
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Wild Violet
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 6, 2016 15:11:02 GMT
Assuming the LD Maui has a post mixer line out , take the signal from that into your Roland and put it in front of you angled up towards you and slightly away from the side the LD is facing [to prevent feed back] and adjust the vol on the Roland so you can hear what you are doing. Nothing worse than being not able to hear what you are singing ...particularly with harmonies.. Thank you!!! I actually understood that... It looks like there is a right and left XLR line out on the Maui. Would I be ok just using one of them?
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Mar 6, 2016 15:26:29 GMT
Yes you could...it should work OK assuming that the left / right balance on the mixer section of the Maui [if it has one] is in the middle. This will give you a mono signal...perfectly OK for a monitor...simplest scenario. If your Roland has two inputs you could take one lead from the left output and another from the right output on the Maui into the Roland inputs...note that the outputs on the Maui are male XLR so you may need to get appropriate leads to go into the inputs on the Roland [ ? jack / XLR or a mixture of both ] ...you can readily buy XLR to Jack leads....if any probs Orchid Electronics will make them up for you to whatever length and colour you want! I should try the simplest way first...
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Wild Violet
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on May 25, 2018 11:40:24 GMT
I sold my SA220 with the intention of getting the lighter-weight AER Compact 60. Life took over and the AER money was needed for other things. (car repair) At the moment I'm using a Yamaha DBR10 speaker and a Soundcraft EMP6 mixer, bought for the duo to use at very noisy pub gigs. My idea was that once I have the AER I'll use a line out from it to the speaker if/when I need extra volume. The current speaker/mixer/monitor setup and breakdown seems to take forever, and I'm never sure if I'm getting it right. At one tricky venue I need to have the Yamaha speaker quite far out in front of me to prevent feedback, and I can't hear what's coming out of it. I've been using the AC-33 as a monitor and need to have it close (not on the floor) to be able to hear it above the noise of the crowd, sometimes this causes feedback issues as well. I was re-reading this thread and was given some good advice but I'm not sure that I understand everything correctly. Can I plug my vocals/guitar into the Roland and use a line out to the Yamaha speaker as I'm intending to do with the AER, so in effect I am using the Roland as a little mixer/monitor combo? Is this a bad idea as far as feedback control is concerned? I've been told that the Soundcraft mixer has "sweepable mids" to help prevent feedback but to be honest I have no idea what that even means. So far I've been very careful about mic placement and speaker positioning, and I'm not always 100% successful. I've asked a soundguy that the band has used in the past if I could pay him to show me and explain clearly how to get the best use of what I have but he hasn't replied to my messages. I've also been considering getting an Alto Trouper (£199, 23 lbs) to possibly use as a monitor at the noisy pubs and on it's own for the slightly quieter gigs, but that would mean putting off the AER purchase a bit longer. I'm not sure if the Alto Trouper would be enough on it's own at the noisy/tricky pub, if it was it would certainly simplify things. Unfortunately the AC-33 isn't loud enough for my regular cafe and restaurant gigs so I'm doing a lot of gear-hauling. The weight was the main reason I sold the SA220, I was starting to have some trouble getting it onto the stand. I now have one of those Ultimate Support speaker stands that lifts the speaker for me so it's not quite so much of an issue but I certainly don't want to buy something I don't need. I really miss the SA220. I'm hoping the eventual arrival of the AER will console me.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 25, 2018 16:04:47 GMT
".....Can I plug my vocals/guitar into the Roland and use a line out to the Yamaha speaker as I'm intending to do with the AER, so in effect I am using the Roland as a little mixer/monitor combo? ....."said Wild Violet. Yes, Lynn; you can. It will work fine in principle. Can't tell you how you'll get on with feedback or not as it is so dependant on other things as well. have you tried putting your monitor slightly behind you and a bit to one side at above waist height? This may give you more flexibility with being able to hear it but keeping the feedback risk reasonably low. Does your feedback come primarily form vocal mike or guitar? If, as most likely, it's the guitar, you may be pleasantly surprised at how little guitar you need in the monitor - it won't sound like the outfront sound, but you reduce feedback possibilty hugely. "Sweepable mids" - Bass eq knob works at a specific set frequency to cut or boost. So does treble. A sweepable mid eq has a similar boost/cut knob plus another knob that allows you to chose the frequency at which the cut/boost operates. The Soundcraft mixer is a nice piece of kit - I use one for solo and duo stuff, and then output to my AER, no monitoring at all, but relatively quiet environments. they are cheapish, good sounding mixers that are easy to use. Any help? Keith
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on May 25, 2018 17:12:33 GMT
Thanks, Keith! How do you "sweep" the mids then, do you have to wait until you have feedback and then try and use that knob to turn down the offending frequency, or is it something you can figure out beforehand?
I have tried the Roland facing me on the floor and also off to one side angled away from the speaker but I've never tried it behind me. The feedback seems to happen when I turn up the volume on my mic more than anything, or when increasing the master volume. I use a soundhole plug with the guitar and keep the bass turned down on the mixer. The feedback happens mainly in one venue, a small but extremely noisy pub with lowish ceilings and all kinds of strange wall angles.
I am trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff but do feel a bit out of my depth.
Any advice on the Alto Trouper?
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on May 25, 2018 18:01:52 GMT
Low ceilings are a pain. Simpler to settle for a lower volume! Having you monitor behind you can allow you to use yourself as a feedbackbuster.
The mid controls aren't specifically for feedback suppression, though they may have that bonus. Primarily there for sound shaping - I tend to take a big chunk out at around 1k for guitar, but often leave flat for vocals. You can, when soundchecking and happy with your settings, deliberately try to provoke feedback by turning up the volume and get someone to apply max mid cut and then tweak the "sweep" to find the offending frequency, then reduce the cut until just safe. You may not like the resulting sound though, partic if on vocals.
Trouble is there may be more than one offending frequency....
I've no experience of the Alto Trooper. But you should be able to get reasonable results with your existing gear with careful placement and eqing (always try to cut rather than boost) and keeping your monitoring levels as low as poss. TBH I have never found a need for any kind of monitoring when solo, no matter how loud the surroundings. Duo/band is different altogether!
Keith
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