francis
C.O.G. 
Posts: 2,482 
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 8, 2016 13:04:31 GMT
Been thinking for a while now about a next project and have finally come down to building a fan fretted guitar based around a triple O with 632 - 657 mm treble and bass scales respectively. Null fret at the 9th fret as it will give fairly even fret 'angles' above and below that point.
Right handed with cutaway.
Materials: still to be decided (probably whatever I have in store at the moment). Given the longer bass scale length I will probably try to emphasise that area and use western red cedar as a top with cherry back and sides. But as I say not finalised yet.
From calcs so far I've established a radial point at 1420mm from the fretboard centre line which should make building a pivoting fret-slot jig quite a simple affair.
TBC...
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkie on May 8, 2016 13:46:28 GMT
Fan frets are fascinating. Looking forward to seeing this one  |
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,723
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on May 8, 2016 14:19:47 GMT
Sounds interesting Francis.
The scale difference is maybe just a teeny bit larger than I would prefer to play, though a lot less than Lowden's huge 45mm scale range, which I found very awkward indeed.
Orthagonal fret around fret 9? From a personal comfort and hand/arm position aspect I'd be happier with it nearer to 7, minimising the "wonkiness" in the most used area (for me anyway!!) And making it easier to execute thumbovers in the lower positions without excessive thumb stretch adaptation.
But, whatever, I'm looking forward to seeing this one come together, and I'm sure cedar and cherry will be a great combo.
Really appreciate all you and all the other clever blokes that share their builds with us - fascinating!
Keith
|
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 8, 2016 14:44:12 GMT
Thanks Keith, Re: the 9th orthogonal fret position. I have to admit that I've done this very much on a visual basis. I constructed the fret layout in Photoshop based on the 9th fret then used the 'skew' tool to reshape the fret angles to fit a 7th fret (& 5th) positions but found that visually while the lower frets (<12th) looked reasonable the upper frets and the bridge especially looked at very steep angles. That's also a reason I kept my scale differences to 25mm. Couple of images of initial thoughts and the fan fret angles:   These are initial thoughts |
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,723
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on May 8, 2016 16:32:46 GMT
Interesting way of working them out Francis! Good decision not going any bigger than 25mm difference too. davewhite has used various differentials treble to bass, and whilst it's only my personal preference, the relatively small scale difference (12mm I think) on his "Big Boy" (ooer!)felt totally transparent in every respect to play, whereas his Samhain model with 30 mm did require me to make some left hand adjustments to how I played - soon accommodated to it, but it did feel odd at first, and I never did get a thumbover F chord right! But, not being a great explorer of lowered tunings I have no idea how much extra benefit is gainable with increasing differential scales beyond a certain point. Fascinating stuff though, esp when it comes to chosing string gauges and stuff to make the most of the the differing scales. Will be watching with intetest! Keith |
|
|
|
Post by seren on May 8, 2016 16:40:31 GMT
I built a fan fret sometime back (number 9?) - did enjoy playing it but did not find much difference in feel to a standard fretboard with regard to the famed improvement in intonation.
I suppose being more of a 'fingerstyle player' contributed to that (regarding difficulty in barred chords). Guitar's no longer in my possession, but I have a prototype somewhere in the workshop!
|
|
|
|
Post by earthbalm on May 8, 2016 16:42:19 GMT
Been thinking for a while now about a next project and have finally come down to building a fan fretted guitar based around a triple O with 632 - 657 mm treble and bass scales respectively. Null fret at the 9th fret as it will give fairly even fret 'angles' above and below that point. Right handed with cutaway. Materials: still to be decided (probably whatever I have in store at the moment). Given the longer bass scale length I will probably try to emphasise that area and use western red cedar as a top with cherry back and sides. But as I say not finalised yet. From calcs so far I've established a radial point at 1420mm from the fretboard centre line which should make building a pivoting fret-slot jig quite a simple affair. TBC... This is a thread I'll be reading avidly. OOO plus fan fret. How would walnut b&s sound / perform? I played davewhite 's fan fret in Cheltenham several years ago and loved it. |
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 8, 2016 16:57:40 GMT
Been thinking for a while now about a next project and have finally come down to building a fan fretted guitar based around a triple O with 632 - 657 mm treble and bass scales respectively. Null fret at the 9th fret as it will give fairly even fret 'angles' above and below that point. Right handed with cutaway. Materials: still to be decided (probably whatever I have in store at the moment). Given the longer bass scale length I will probably try to emphasise that area and use western red cedar as a top with cherry back and sides. But as I say not finalised yet. From calcs so far I've established a radial point at 1420mm from the fretboard centre line which should make building a pivoting fret-slot jig quite a simple affair. TBC... This is a thread I'll be reading avidly. OOO plus fan fret. How would walnut b&s sound / perform? I played davewhite 's fan fret in Cheltenham several years ago and loved it. I don't have any walnut but I do have cherry... budget job... |
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,723
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on May 8, 2016 17:24:44 GMT
Aha -images added francis - brilliant! Have to say that from my personal point of view, and as a player, I really like the look of the 7th fret diagram, simply beacuse the frets I would use most aren't too skewed at all. The bridge, and nut aesthetics are a whole other field though! Keith |
|
Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by Riverman on May 8, 2016 21:36:00 GMT
From calcs so far I've established a radial point at 1420mm from the fretboard centre line which should make building a pivoting fret-slot jig quite a simple affair. Yeah, that's what I thought.  |
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 9, 2016 7:57:38 GMT
I asked a question on laminated ribs/sides in another thread on here and got an interesting response from Nigel. Whilst he's not giving away the material he now uses he's piqued my interest enough to use laminated sides on this one. Something else I've been thinking about but never got round to is laminated bracing making them stiffer and lighter, certainly for the main spars. (I also have some Nomex bought years ago but that can wait for another time and place).
TBC...
|
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on May 10, 2016 7:04:13 GMT
Mine is a 9th fret I think. You don't need a great length of the bass to tighten everything up. The major factor in the angle is the length of the 1st string?
My 1st never goes higher than D so I stuck with an OM scale length. Others prefer a shorter scale on that string which presumably exaggerates the angle.
|
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 10, 2016 9:31:29 GMT
Mine is a 9th fret I think. You don't need a great length of the bass to tighten everything up. The major factor in the angle is the length of the 1st string? My 1st never goes higher than D so I stuck with an OM scale length. Others prefer a shorter scale on that string which presumably exaggerates the angle. I've based mine on a Triple 'O' with a short scale of 632mm, An OM typically is 645mm, it's the difference in the scale lengths relative to the fretboard width that creates the total angle - how that angle is distributed is down to the position of the null fret. Placed at the 12th fret the angles are equal either side, moving the null towards the nut increases the angle at the bridge or vis versa. I'm looking at a 55mm fretboard width at the 12th fret with a 25mm difference in the scale lengths that gives me a total angle of: 24.44° with my scale length of 632 that gives me a treble side pivot point for the fret fan at 1459 mm or 1431 mm from the fretboard centre line. Making the fretboard wider increases the pivot point distance, a narrower fretboard has the opposite effect. |
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 10, 2016 11:07:42 GMT
This is where I am with my thinking at the moment with reference to the body shape, side laminations and bracing of the top.  Body shape is fairly traditional Triple 'O' with cutaway: Body length 492, lower bout 382, upper bout 288. Asymmetric X brace. Soundboard: Western Red Ceder Back Cherry Sides (outer - cherry) laminations 2x (tulipwood or Sapele) Soundboard bracing: X-braces 16 x 7mm spruce with central, vertical hardwood lamination Other soundboard braces spruce. Linings - none front/back direct bonding to sides. Welcome comments on this |
|
francis
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,482
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on May 22, 2016 6:40:18 GMT
|
|
Jo whoever he is.
