|
Post by Vinny on Aug 24, 2021 15:02:35 GMT
Very good thread, and lots of positive posts - to be expected here, but true nonetheless. If it encourages you to play, buy to your heart's (and wallet's) content. I was once browsing guitars, when my wife asked, "How many guitars can you play at a time?", at which the shop owner quipped, "How many pairs of shoes can you wear at a time?" I hope the shop owner had a decent burial. Brian Shop now under different management. Co-incidence....?
|
|
stringdriventhing
C.O.G.
Posts: 1,859
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"101011"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: E61921
Mini-Profile Text Color: e6ce19
|
Post by stringdriventhing on Aug 24, 2021 15:36:45 GMT
I did once ask the guy in Ivor Mairants, after I'd been wasting his time for far too long trying out guitars I can't afford, what kind of customer tends to buy the guitars over two grand and he said it's rarely professional musicians - they don't earn enough money. I was in a branch of a well-known chain of guitar shops recently. The young fella attending to me shoved a high-end Martin 000 into my hands. When I told him I wasn't keen on all the bling on it he said - "I know what you mean, we call those "lawyer guitars" in here"
|
|
leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,500
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
|
Post by leoroberts on Aug 24, 2021 16:42:40 GMT
.... works out at about 27p per hour and if anyone can find better value than that for a pastime/indulgence then I'd like to know what it is. Pornhub subscription. Anyway, must dash - I've an appointment at the opticians. Something's wrong with my eyesight.
|
|
|
Post by fred7 on Aug 24, 2021 16:54:28 GMT
I think everyone should play the guitar that makes them enjoy playing the most and makes them feel like they want to play more. Whether that is the most expensive one they can afford or a cheap one that fits is irrelevant.
What really winds me up is seeing the ideal home type shots of posh front rooms containing a high quality guitar on a stand that never gets played. A bit like the wealthy idiots who push concert ticket prices up because it's trendy to go and see some band they've never heard at the expense of the real fans.
|
|
stringdriventhing
C.O.G.
Posts: 1,859
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"101011"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: E61921
Mini-Profile Text Color: e6ce19
|
Post by stringdriventhing on Aug 24, 2021 17:20:55 GMT
It's an interesting question. I've seen amazing guitar players sound wonderful on a beat-up pub guitar with high action and dead strings. I've also seen guys thrashing away cowboy chords on some high-end hand-made guitar and wondered if that was the most appropriate instrument for them. It often comes down to economics, but I agree you should probably buy the best you can afford. I've been thinking about shelling out on a "better" guitar for over a year, but never get round to it. Will it make me a better player?... I suppose it might encourage me to play more, but I play quite a lot as it is. Will it be easier to play than what I've got?... probably not. Will it sound better?... probably, but will it sound better enough to justify the cost? These questions just rattle about my brain until I eventually shelf the idea again. As you can see the GAS is weak in this one For people starting out I'd always recommend spending as much as you can afford on a half-decent guitar that you won't find frustrating to learn on or grow out of too quickly.
|
|
douglas
Strummer
Three chords and the truth.
Posts: 47
My main instrument is: ... the next one.
|
Post by douglas on Aug 24, 2021 17:44:25 GMT
But I can still convince myself, if not always 'others', that to spend £1,000 say on a lovely guitar which I will play for say 7 hours a week for at least 10 years, works out at about 27p per hour and if anyone can find better value than that for a pastime/indulgence then I'd like to know what it is. FFJ Very good point. I use something similar as I tend to buy second-hand. Say I buy sensibly for £1000 - I don't consider the capital cost, what matters is how much you 'lose' when you sell. The difference / loss is a lease cost and it generally makes even 27p/hour look a bit steep!!. There are times it works the other way - the last 2 Fender basses I sold made £50 on one, £100 on the other. So my thing generally is buy quality second-hand, and accept a modest loss later, knowing you'll get almost all the capital back... and round we go again. Oh, hang on. I've just explained to myself that the Collings down the road is a sensible four grand.
|
|
|
Post by grayn on Aug 24, 2021 18:33:41 GMT
I remember, years ago, when we had a meet at Flss's house. Anyone remember her? I could remember saying to her, before that, why would you want to spend over a grand on a guitar. Well of course, it wasn't long beofore I'd spent over 2 grand on a Goodall. And that was some guitar. But that seemed low priced compared to some of the guitars we saw a Fliss's. Yet as I mainly live on the dark side these days and the years have passed, I don't yearn for those Sobells and Bowns. In fact, the last two times i went out, with a couple of grand to spend on an acoustic, I came home with a Yamaha, costing less than one grand. I don't feel my skills deserve a Bown etc but if I did and I could afford it, I'd get one. Get your fun and inspiration where you can, I say. As has been alluded to, there are some spectacular acoustics, made all over the world, for not a lot of cash. My cheapish Yamaha LL-TA is honestly as good as most acoustics I have owned and suits my guitar skills down to the ground. Buy what you want but get permission from the Mrs first.
|
|
|
Post by vikingblues on Aug 24, 2021 19:13:56 GMT
While I'd go along with the idea of getting a guitar that's better than your skill level I would also go along with the cautionary notes already posted in this thread. Getting a guitar that suits you and makes you want to play and create is worth far more than a "superior" guitar that you can't relate to. A difficulty is, how easy is it to find yourself relating to a guitar that is better than you are if it needs a superior skill set to get much satisfaction from playing it? I vividly recall a half hour "shoot out" between two guitars, after trying several guitars that day. The two best possibilities were poles apart on price and the expensive one was undeniably higher quality. Price was £300 and about 5 times that price for the expensive guitar. These two were ahead of the others by quite a distance. As the time of the shoot-out progressed I found the £300 guitar had me playing and creating very fluidly and with enjoyment. I kept on longer with the test because I wanted to hear the expensive "better" guitar start to sing for me - I was OK with the higher spend. The £300 guitar still gets played regularly and is a pleasure to play and hear. A really good guitar can be very unforgiving for every minor mistake and this can be very dispiriting. I know 'cos I've been there. A really good guitar can have very impressive resonance and sustain - but you need to be able to control and damp that when needed and that physically is extra work needing to be done, and needs skilfully coordinated with the note playing. I know 'cos I've been there, didn't have the skills, and still don't. And never will - my age and joints dictate I cannot practice at improving my physical dexterity. The better, more talemted and more musically adept the guitarist is then the more it makes sense to get a guitar that can get better for you as your skill set improves to match it. For more ordinary mortals who struggle along I feel the idea is less sure fire. Mark
|
|
|
Post by Janey on Aug 24, 2021 19:18:01 GMT
What an excellent thread. I started to play when about 13 or 14 on a catalogue bought nylon strung monstrosity. Then as I progressed a bit I started work and bought my Yamaha (it was I believe £116) which I got my dad to stand as guarantor on and bought it on credit. This was the guitar that I learnt to play on (a bit) and although I had others over the years this was MY guitar. It saw me through various worship groups, bands, and pub gigs. Then I grew older and work commitments stopped me playing pretty much for over 20 years. During this time I got my Guild, This is the guitar that I'm re-learning on now. I don't know if I've contributed to the discussion at all but my feelings are if a person REALLY wants to learn they will learn on what they can get but a decent guitar is so much easier to learn on and play.
|
|
|
Post by martinrowe on Aug 24, 2021 19:47:20 GMT
The whole seemingly constant buying/selling/marketing culture still disturbs me. Is it just buying guitars? Psychologically, and perhaps understandably, there seems to be some need of a reward in return for spending your time (working) for monetary gain. Then again you have to eat and keep warm. Hmmm. is that a bit 'out there'?
|
|
|
Post by NikGnashers on Aug 24, 2021 20:40:10 GMT
After owning 15 or so guitars, and blowing a bit hot & cold on all of them until my last purchase, I would have to say : buy the best guitar you can afford, so long as you find it somehow desirable and exciting to own. I lusted after a Lowden for many years (yes I know many people are not fanatical about them like me), and owned some quite nice guitars in the past (Takamine, Tanglewood, Epiphone, Yamaha, etc) yet after the initial love-in period of ownership, I never really played any of them constantly. Since I have managed to get my dream Lowden, I can honestly say, there have not been many months where I have not picked it up for at least 20 mins or so, every single day. To me, that is worth the purchase price. When you look forward to playing your instrument so much, it is never a chore to practise. I don't care how much I 'lose' when I sell, because I don't plan on ever selling it.
|
|
|
Post by fatfingerjohn on Aug 24, 2021 20:58:26 GMT
Despite my earlier post about how small a cost it is to have a 'nice' guitar if you calculate it over the time of ownership, I would clarify what I feel by saying that I'm almost paranoid about not falling for the Emperor's new Clothes' trick. Just because its expensive and supposed to be good doesn't mean it is good (for me at least; it may be great for someone else). And in fact, like others have said, I've played a lot of expensive guitars which I don't like and many inexpensive ones that I do.
I think the position I am trying to express is that if you find a guitar which you feel is just right for you and perhaps stretches your budget, do my 'value' test and be prepared to convince yourself it's worth every penny. But don't fall for the marketing blurb which tries to tell you what you should like when it isn't what you want or need.
FFJ
|
|
leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,500
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
|
Post by leoroberts on Aug 24, 2021 21:08:58 GMT
I remember, years ago, when we had a meet at Flss's house. Anyone remember her? I remember the Olsen that came along... but can't remember who brought it.!
|
|
douglas
Strummer
Three chords and the truth.
Posts: 47
My main instrument is: ... the next one.
|
Post by douglas on Aug 25, 2021 5:44:58 GMT
I would clarify what I feel by saying that I'm almost paranoid about not falling for the Emperor's new Clothes' trick. >>Good point. Bought my Faith in PMT Romford recently - Matthew there told me about 80% of all acoustics they sell are mid-size cutaway electros. The newer trend seems to be onboard effects (chorus etc). I reckon electros get plugged in as often as Range Rovers go off-road. Quick scan on eBay and there seem to be quite a few older nice acoustics that are probably out of fashion - Yamaha, Takamine, dreadnoughts generally. As Steve Jobs once said "Better to be a pirate than join the navy."
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Aug 25, 2021 7:49:06 GMT
It depends.
As a player I would always encourage people to but the best guitar they can afford but only if it inspires them in its sound a playability. But remember the guitar that inspires may not be the most expensive - but this holds in many areas of life.
Collectors will buy for other reasons including uniqueness, history, range across the selection and so on.
For me the best guitar is the one that makes me smile while I play, whether I play something well or not.
At the end of the day this is not rocket science. But it is simply about having fun :-)
|
|