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Post by fatfingerjohn on Nov 13, 2023 19:05:25 GMT
Thanks for all your help and useful comments. I guess Bernd's suggestions are very sound; learn to play the damn thing without the neck thingie before you try to do them both. After a few goes I think he's right; getting single notes without being hands-on is tough. But at the same time I want to play something with Harp as filler rather than solo, at which point perhaps getting a perfect single note may be less vital. So I think a compromise will be the best plan; practice a bit of both and see what wins. If its neither then there's some cheap harmonica stuff coming up for sale.... FLJ
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motsetiaw
Busker
Posts: 67
My main instrument is: Fleeting jazz nylon
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Post by motsetiaw on Nov 14, 2023 18:03:50 GMT
I've been playing harp ( diatonic & chromatic) for over 50 years in various musical genres, so feel qualified to add some pointers..do not give up, this instrument is so versatile & portable & great fun once you master a few basics.. 1.Not sure if you read music (the dots) if you do, then stick with vamping along to simple chord sequences & melodies of your favourite songs in straight harp..i.e. the harp is in the same key you're playing the guitar in..this is what Springsteen/Dylan/N.Young have done & none of them are particularly great harp players... 2. if you're not a sight reader, then you must use your ears, they are your best friends... 3. ditch the guitar (initially) to practice harp exclusively alongside your favourite songs/melodies perhaps on a CD player/internet videos or similar...start slowly, repeat/practice/repeat/practice... 4.assuming you have the 10 hole diatonic style, practice the simple blow/suck chords covering holes 1.2.3 without effort, having no tension in your breathing/throat or tongue...the relaxed breathing should come from your diaphragm not your lungs;that way you will not run short of air! 5.ditch the guitar 6.once you can successfully played a simple melody on any keyed harp like "when the saints go marching in" or even "silent night" very popular next month, then go online & research/look at Adam Gussow's videos where you will learn more advanced techniques ( playing in 2nd or blues position/tongue blocking/chordal & single note runs) 7.ditch the guitar 8.once you have mastered & really learned the basics, you may then start to expand by playing along with your favourite stringed instrument...
thousands of really good guitarists out there.....very few versatile harp players playing in all the styles... Bonne chance
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Nov 14, 2023 18:28:38 GMT
I've been playing harp ( diatonic & chromatic) for over 50 years in various musical genres, so feel qualified to add some pointers..do not give up, this instrument is so versatile & portable & great fun once you master a few basics.. 1.Not sure if you read music (the dots) if you do, then stick with vamping along to simple chord sequences & melodies of your favourite songs in straight harp..i.e. the harp is in the same key you're playing the guitar in..this is what Springsteen/Dylan/N.Young have done & none of them are particularly great harp players... 2. if you're not a sight reader, then you must use your ears, they are your best friends... 3. ditch the guitar (initially) to practice harp exclusively alongside your favourite songs/melodies perhaps on a CD player/internet videos or similar...start slowly, repeat/practice/repeat/practice... 4.assuming you have the 10 hole diatonic style, practice the simple blow/suck chords covering holes 1.2.3 without effort, having no tension in your breathing/throat or tongue...the relaxed breathing should come from your diaphragm not your lungs;that way you will not run short of air! 5.ditch the guitar 6.once you can successfully played a simple melody on any keyed harp like "when the saints go marching in" or even "silent night" very popular next month, then go online & research/look at Adam Gussow's videos where you will learn more advanced techniques ( playing in 2nd or blues position/tongue blocking/chordal & single note runs) 7.ditch the guitar 8.once you have mastered & really learned the basics, you may then start to expand by playing along with your favourite stringed instrument... thousands of really good guitarists out there.....very few versatile harp players playing in all the styles... Bonne chance Thanks very much for your comprehensive reply and I must say that, after a few days, there is little in it I could disagree with. I suppose I hoped that I could learn to play the harp at a basic level alongside the guitar together but have already abandoned that to a large extent. I will try the odd obvious ones just to keep me interested but your 'ditch the guitar' message is loud and clear (that is whilst playing the harp). I suppose the only thing which I would point out is that I have no real intention of becoming an 'advanced' player; I feel at age 77 it is much too late for that. Learning something totally new at this age is pretty daunting anyway. I envy your 50 years though. I'm using YouTube quite a bit so far, looking at backing tracks etc so that I can concentrate purely on the harp. Early days, will give it 3 months and hope it sinks in in gradually. I know regular practice is key. Once again, thanks very much for taking the time. FFJ
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motsetiaw
Busker
Posts: 67
My main instrument is: Fleeting jazz nylon
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Post by motsetiaw on Nov 17, 2023 7:47:43 GMT
A METHOD FOR PRACTICE
Most theories on practicing are sound, and will work if followed diligently, but it is reasonable to suppose that some work better than others. My own theory of practice is time tested, and has proven very successful for myself and my students. I should add that others have offered similar ideas, so I don't claim any unique insight.
This method entails what I (and others) call "snail practice." This means pretty much what it sounds like – but not just "slow" practice. It means very, very slow practice. There are many reasons for this – all good, and many results of this – all good.
First, it relieves, or more correctly – precludes – tension. Tension is the single most detrimental factor and inhibitor of fluent playing. And so it is beneficial to ask what causes a player tension in the first place. It is primarily caused by fear of making a mistake. You perform a hundred simple, mundane tasks daily without getting tense. You don't get tense pouring yourself a glass of water. Or tying your shoelaces. That's because you're not likely to get it wrong, and it doesn't matter much if you do.
But when practicing a piece of music, especially for the first time, you are likely to get it wrong – at least at first, and at least in some places. So you get tense because you are afraid you are going to make a mistake. Ironically, that fear generally becomes self fulfilling due to the tension it creates.
But suppose for a moment there was a way of practicing by which it is just about impossible to make a mistake - even the first time through the music. You are not going to get tense since you know you are not going to make a mistake, and consequently there is no reason to get tense. Very, very slow practice is that way. You practice so very, very slowly that you completely relax in the knowledge that you are playing the music perfectly – we are speaking here of just the notes.
Consider that statement for a moment – "playing the music perfectly." It's quite an achievement to play music perfectly, albeit at a very, very slow tempo. The goal of any practice method is to eventually play the music perfectly, and here you are doing so the first time through. No tension – no need for it.
Now consider the alternative – practicing faster than very, very slowly. You are bound to make some mistakes. What then? You go back and try it again. Maybe you make the same mistake or mistakes in the same place or places. Maybe you don't but make some other mistake or mistakes. What then? You go back and try it again. Etc. You will probably get it right – eventually. But at what cost? Frustration at making mistakes, more repetitions than are necessary, and – tension.
And frequently a repeated mistake becomes ingrained, so that you tend to make it often, and even when you don't you get tense at that point because you know it's a problem spot and you're afraid you're going to make that same familiar mistake. How much better is it then to not make mistakes while practicing, and to relax in the knowledge that you will not.
excellent advice for practice on any instrument taken from comments page on the excellent Michael Nalysnyk homepage--excellent luthier Bradford BAsed
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Post by papadon on Nov 20, 2023 19:36:35 GMT
Harmonica convenience gear. Get yourself a rack, a boom stand and a .45 caliber pistol magazine holder and you've got all of your harps right where you need them.
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Nov 22, 2023 23:18:36 GMT
I've dabbled on and off with harmonica over the years, but I find the diatonic a bit limiting (I'm too used to fully chromatic instruments). I looked to getting a chromatic but they are very expensive! At one point I shelled out on a Seydel, quite expensive and I found it didn't sound any better than my cheap and cheerful House of Marbles I bought from a gift shop. I think its actually a Hohner special 20 in disguise! I might just pick up that cheap harp again sometime ...
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Nov 23, 2023 0:08:14 GMT
When I recorded this song, City of New Orleans, I don't think I had ever played the harmonica part *without* a rack. I'm in a real recording studio: vocals and acoustic guitar together, then 5 string banjo, harmonica, and backing vocals on multiple tracks. That's not me on the trombone! It was weird playing the usual riff I had, holding the harmonica in my hands and not in the rack. Then we decided to have me vamp on the harmonica at the end, which was even more confusing and scary. I think the playing peters out as my confidence fails... Peter That was pretty cool!
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Wild Violet
Artist / Performer
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Nov 23, 2023 7:21:00 GMT
Thanks so much for that info, minorkey ! I'll try a House of Marbles one the next time I'm in the mood for a new harmonica
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Nov 23, 2023 8:23:56 GMT
I've dabbled on and off with harmonica over the years, but I find the diatonic a bit limiting (I'm too used to fully chromatic instruments). I looked to getting a chromatic but they are very expensive! At one point I shelled out on a Seydel, quite expensive and I found it didn't sound any better than my cheap and cheerful House of Marbles I bought from a gift shop. I think its actually a Hohner special 20 in disguise! I might just pick up that cheap harp again sometime ... This may sound the most naive question/observation ever posed here, but as a total newbie I came to the conclusion that if I ONLY want to play harmonica at the same time as playing guitar (i.e. as part of the accompaniment of the song) then a chromatic guitar is not a consideration as you need ne hand to press the button if you are paying in a different key to the chromatic instrument you have bought. Thus, the only option is diatonic, and that means buying quite a few of them. If I've totally missed the point on this please tell me and I may then sell the diatonics I've bought and settle for one chromatic. (But I do need both hands to play guitar and also need to play in numerous different keys). And of course I've now found out there are minor key diatonics as well; and loads of others. Luckily I need to just learn the basics at this stage. FLJ aka FFJ
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Post by martinrowe on Nov 23, 2023 9:17:27 GMT
Yes, you're right, it can get expensive. I only had a C Harmonica for a long time. With that I could play Crossed Harp with the guitar in G and melodies in C - it got frustrating at times but as they say 'you find a way'. You could concentrate on say Heart Of Gold and get the Harmonica that fits that and just concentrate on that - I can't play it but I'd think that will take more than 5 minutes. For some songs in other keys you may be able to capo the guitar to suit the Harmonica. I find myself doing that a fair bit. If you think about it you probably don't need the flat keys, I end up mostly using my A and C Harps and sometimes that governs the key i.e. if something is in D we'll capo the guitar at the 2nd fret (effectively changing the key to E) which means I can play the A Harp crossed. e.g. If you have a C Harmonica you can play guitar chords/melodies in C, capo at 3 and you can play some songs that are will work with A guitar shapes, capo at 5 you can play songs that are in guitar G shapes. As I say I find a C and an A Harmonica I use a lot. Hope it helps PistolPete is the man on this really.
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Post by borborygmus on Nov 23, 2023 9:23:30 GMT
Diatonic harmonicas all the way. In practice, you might only need 2 or 3 - not all the possible keys. I always went with Lee Oskar as a brand, they are about £30 each these days.
An example of *brilliant* chromatic playing from one of the best:
Peter
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brianr2
C.O.G.
Posts: 3,050
My main instrument is: Brook Lyn guitar
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Post by brianr2 on Nov 23, 2023 11:00:39 GMT
I've dabbled on and off with harmonica over the years, but I find the diatonic a bit limiting (I'm too used to fully chromatic instruments). I looked to getting a chromatic but they are very expensive! At one point I shelled out on a Seydel, quite expensive and I found it didn't sound any better than my cheap and cheerful House of Marbles I bought from a gift shop. I think its actually a Hohner special 20 in disguise! I might just pick up that cheap harp again sometime ... This may sound the most naive question/observation ever posed here, but as a total newbie I came to the conclusion that if I ONLY want to play harmonica at the same time as playing guitar (i.e. as part of the accompaniment of the song) then a chromatic guitar is not a consideration as you need ne hand to press the button if you are paying in a different key to the chromatic instrument you have bought. Thus, the only option is diatonic, and that means buying quite a few of them. If I've totally missed the point on this please tell me and I may then sell the diatonics I've bought and settle for one chromatic. (But I do need both hands to play guitar and also need to play in numerous different keys). And of course I've now found out there are minor key diatonics as well; and loads of others. Luckily I need to just learn the basics at this stage. FLJ aka FFJ It seems that GAS may have become HAS…
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Nov 23, 2023 16:05:31 GMT
This may sound the most naive question/observation ever posed here, but as a total newbie I came to the conclusion that if I ONLY want to play harmonica at the same time as playing guitar (i.e. as part of the accompaniment of the song) then a chromatic guitar is not a consideration as you need ne hand to press the buton if you are paying in a different key to the chromatic instrument you have bought. Thus, the only option is diatonic, and that means buying quite a few of them. If I've totally missed the point on this please tell me and I may then sell the diatonics I've bought and settle for one chromatic. (But I do need both hands to play guitar and also need to play in numerous different keys). I wouldn't know about as I have no intention of playing guitar + harmonica. Harmonica is best played solo so you can get all the dynamics, hand waah etc
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Nov 23, 2023 16:56:28 GMT
Harmonica is best played solo so you can get all the dynamics, hand waah etc I think you (inadvertently, I'm sure) missed off the 'in my opinion' part of that sentence, Larry And, even if you're correct, there are plenty of artists who, like FFJ (and Ralph McTell, and Bob Dylan, and Jimi Lee, and countless others) might argue that it's simply impossible to play the guitar AND a hand-held harmonica at the same time so compromises must be made.
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minorkey
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My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Nov 23, 2023 17:28:01 GMT
No i didn't misunderstand, I'm just saying I personally would much rather play harmonica, or guitar, but not both together.
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