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Post by borborygmus on Feb 11, 2024 12:32:39 GMT
I great guitar is a great guitar and I think the term " mass produced" doesn't really apply to Lowden. Whether a maker produces 5 or 500 guitars a year is no guarantee of quality. I think that Lowden make ~1,000 guitars a year. I'm not sure that means "mass produced", but I think it is more than anyone else in the UK. Martin make well over 100 times that each year. In fact, I would guess that if you add up all the other acoustic guitars actually made in the UK each year, it would come to less than 1,000. Atkin next biggest? Peter
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Post by grayn on Feb 12, 2024 9:32:42 GMT
I guess I kind of dislike the elitism that can be discerned from people who are skilled musicians and have the money and patience to buy very "high end" boutique guitars. Saying some folk will see a Lowden as a holy grail, kind of insinuates that they don't know any better. I have owned Brook, Goodall and Fylde guitars but am not sure that they are considered up there, with the super pricey boutiques. Probably not but I have played some Martins and some Taylors that were easily the equal of the 3 small makers I have owned. It would be a lot of fun to go to Forsyths, with a big wad and try a load of Lowdens and other pricey makes and find one that rings one's bell. Ding dong!
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 12, 2024 9:55:42 GMT
I was in Forsyth’s on Friday morning. No sign of a sale although a few guitars were reduced. As far as “I remember when” goes, inflation since 1999 runs at 79%. VAT increased from 17.5% to 20% in 2011. Add all that to the price back then and you’re not very far away from the current street (discounted) price of a new 025.
Retail shops, particularly on main shopping streets, like Deansgate, have faced massive financial issues and very tough competition online. Many music shops like Forsyth’s have gone out of business, often because the core business that sustained them, from schools, has virtually disappeared. Bank’s in York and Dean’s in Scarborough (where I bought 7 of the first 8 guitars I owned) come to mind.
As for the comment about Martin guitars, on top of inflation you have to add the collapse in the value of the £ since Brexit. I lived in the USA 97-01, the exchange rate then was around $1.75, compared to $1.25 today. That’s a drop of around one third. Add that to inflation and it’s obvious why prices have risen.
It’s not excessive profiteering, it’s business in the real world.
At the recent Woodstock show I didn’t see a single guitar under $8,500 even from relatively new luthiers. Over here certain luthiers now have stratospheric prices. How many of the guitars they sell go to real guitar players instead of rich collectors is debatable.
I have a lovely little Wee Lowden (WL25) that is a great guitar. In my opinion, the company competes well within the Collings/Santa Cruz market for price. If you haven’t played a Lowden in recent years, I think you might be surprised how they have expanded the range and sound. The Koa x34 range is outstandingly good.
Summarise this as “Reality check required”.
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Post by borborygmus on Feb 12, 2024 10:00:50 GMT
Saying some folk will see a Lowden as a holy grail, kind of insinuates that they don't know any better. I have owned Brook, Goodall and Fylde guitars but am not sure that they are considered up there, with the super pricey boutiques. Probably not but I have played some Martins and some Taylors that were easily the equal of the 3 small makers I have owned. Most, if not nearly all, the market doesn't know any better. The bigger brands are seen as the best, and you might include Lowden in that group, especially with the Sheeran fillip. The artisanal brands are almost completely unknown except for some cognoscenti, like the people who frequent this forum and others. The market sees the star pop/rock/country musicians play Martins and Taylors - so those brands must be the best. I have been around the acoustic guitar world for some time (I used to be a minority shareholder in an upmarket acoustic guitar dealership), and I've never seen a Brook or a Goodall in person. I have no doubt that they make very fine instruments; I'd like to have a go on them sometime. This weekend I was privileged to play some excellent guitars, including a Tom Sands OM, a Sobell New World and a Martin OM Authentic - all were great, quite different, but very good, despite two being boutique* and one mass market. The one that stayed in my lap the longest was the Sands, I have to say. Your mileage may vary! * "boutique" = almost completely unknown to the outside world Peter
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 12, 2024 10:46:05 GMT
Tom Sands base price in the high teens I’m told.
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Post by borborygmus on Feb 12, 2024 11:04:47 GMT
Tom Sands base price in the high teens I’m told. ... and you'll have to wait years for a new one. The one I played this weekend was an early model, they did cost a lot less back then . My own early Tom Sands guitar was low single digit £1,000s. It is a very good guitar, some eight years old and maturing well. I am very fond of the story. Peter Video:
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,554
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Feb 19, 2024 13:37:00 GMT
Sale extended until March 3rd...
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Phil Taylor
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,410
Mini-Profile Name Color: 680908
Mini-Profile Text Color: 121311
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Post by Phil Taylor on Feb 19, 2024 19:44:47 GMT
I was in Forsyth’s on Friday morning. No sign of a sale although a few guitars were reduced. As far as “I remember when” goes, inflation since 1999 runs at 79%. VAT increased from 17.5% to 20% in 2011. Add all that to the price back then and you’re not very far away from the current street (discounted) price of a new 025. Retail shops, particularly on main shopping streets, like Deansgate, have faced massive financial issues and very tough competition online. Many music shops like Forsyth’s have gone out of business, often because the core business that sustained them, from schools, has virtually disappeared. Bank’s in York and Dean’s in Scarborough (where I bought 7 of the first 8 guitars I owned) come to mind. As for the comment about Martin guitars, on top of inflation you have to add the collapse in the value of the £ since Brexit. I lived in the USA 97-01, the exchange rate then was around $1.75, compared to $1.25 today. That’s a drop of around one third. Add that to inflation and it’s obvious why prices have risen. It’s not excessive profiteering, it’s business in the real world. At the recent Woodstock show I didn’t see a single guitar under $8,500 even from relatively new luthiers. Over here certain luthiers now have stratospheric prices. How many of the guitars they sell go to real guitar players instead of rich collectors is debatable. I have a lovely little Wee Lowden (WL25) that is a great guitar. In my opinion, the company competes well within the Collings/Santa Cruz market for price. If you haven’t played a Lowden in recent years, I think you might be surprised how they have expanded the range and sound. The Koa x34 range is outstandingly good. Summarise this as “Reality check required”. I was in there about 11.15ish last Friday morning Chris. Pity I didn't see you because we could have had a good look around together 🙂
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 21, 2024 11:08:12 GMT
I was literally a few minutes later 🙄
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simonalex
Strummer
Posts: 38
My main instrument is: Bown OM Lowden F50 Lowden 025 Mc Nally S
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Post by simonalex on Feb 22, 2024 22:17:32 GMT
I am currently the owner of three Lowdens and all are excellent instruments although probably more suited to celtic style playing than americana- that was mainly the reason I acquired them.Although I can understand the attraction of having an instrument built to your own specification I do feel that a lot of bullshit and snobbery floats around the process and you see many custom built instruments back on the sales sites after a few months-maybe theyre not the holy grail or the panacea for inadequate finger dexterity after all.I am surprised at the number of excellent instruments available nowadays from builders such as Furch and eastman and the new Bourgeois Touchstone Range.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Feb 24, 2024 1:24:35 GMT
So, I went over to Forsyth’s today to have a look at the Lowdens on sale. I was particularly interested in the F-34 that was reduced to £3,000 It’s a good hours journey getting into central Manchester so I was less than pleased to be told that, despite the guitar still being for sale on their website, they had sold it “last week”!
I tried a few of the other guitars and initially liked an F23C. Its strings were dead so they offered to change them. Whilst they were doing this I tried an F21 which also needed new strings and very obviously a decent setup. That didn’t move me at all.
When the F23C reappeared I was confidently anticipating bringing it home with me. How wrong I was! The highs were really nice but the lower mids (4th and 5th strings) sounded dull and lifeless. I thought that they had forgotten to change those strings but they had. So it was disappointing visit.
Noticeably the F-34 had already been removed from the website before I left the store.
Not very professional to be frank.
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Post by borborygmus on Feb 24, 2024 13:51:31 GMT
Although I can understand the attraction of having an instrument built to your own specification I do feel that a lot of bullshit and snobbery floats around the process and you see many custom built instruments back on the sales sites after a few months-maybe theyre not the holy grail or the panacea for inadequate finger dexterity after all. One possibility is that, despite the best efforts of you and the luthier to make the guitar you want (or you think you want...), at the end of the day you may just not bond with it. I am sure you have done it - gone to a guitar shop and picked up three or four similar instruments with similar specs, and found that one appeals to you, a couple you are ambivalent about, and one you really don't like. They are ostensibly very similar instruments, but you only desire one of them. Something about the feel, the sound, the fit... all subjective stuff. We hear numerous tales on the forum of people walking out of the shop with "it really spoke to me, I just couldn't leave it behind." Well, you don't have that luxury of test driving when you have a guitar built for you. Even if you have played similar instruments from that builder, yours will definitely be different to those. You will get your new guitar, it will be beautiful, it will. But maybe, after a while, the feel, the sound, the fit... all the subjective stuff. You just may not meld with it. I don't think this happens very often, but it does happen. Move the instrument on and try again. BTW, I have never bought a guitar, bespoke or otherwise, as a panacea for inadequate finger dexterity. Peter
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