davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Jul 1, 2015 12:56:15 GMT
Does using them on a short-scale guitar (630mm) make a difference to the tension? For the same tuning the same strings will have about 6% less tension on a 630mm scale length guitar compared with a 650mm scale length guitar. D'Addario EJ24's are my favourites for DADGAD although on a 630mm scale length guitar EJ17's work very well too.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 1, 2015 12:58:24 GMT
The same string at the same pitch will be at a slightly lower tension on a short scale guitar than on a longer one. Whether you can feel the difference or not is another matter... Keith
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 1, 2015 12:58:56 GMT
Ah, Dave beat me to it with a much better answer!
K
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Jul 1, 2015 14:28:28 GMT
Thanks guys. I note Dave davewhite that the gauges of the EJ17s are identical to the Elixirs I mentioned. Keith ocarolan your reply was perfectly splendid too
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 1, 2015 20:15:13 GMT
Standard Newtone - ignore heritage!
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 2, 2015 6:35:03 GMT
Good that the D'addarios are working for you.
Yes - the shorter scale length reduces the tension. Imagine you took a longer scale guitar in standard tuning and capo'd it at the first fret. The capo acts more-or-less like a new nut, shortening the effective scale length of the strings to roughly that of a shorter scale. But it also raises the pitches of the strings a half-step. So to get it back into standard tuning, you detune all the strings a half-step. So the shorter scale length has caused you to reduce the tension on the strings. Which was why I used 10s on 24.75" scale electrics and 9s on 25.5" - meant they felt more the same.
Interesting with your figures that D'Addario True Mediums DADGAD at diameter:- 13 17 24 32 42 56 have tensions of:- 27 26 30 29 29 28
while Newtone Heritage DADGAD at diameter:- 13 17 20 27 36 59 have tensions of:- 20 20 21 20 20 21
Interesting on two counts. 1. There seems no similarity in the relationship of tension v diameters of the two sets which I guess underlines how much the engineering process of the way the string is formed / made has an effect on tension. 2. The D'Addario True Mediums DADGAD strings seem to have lost some of that wider variability in tension string to string that their (and most other makers) acoustic strings have.
For example - EJ16 Phosphor Bronze, Light, 12-53 23 23 30 30 29 25 and EJ11 80/20 Bronze Acoustic, Light, 12-53 23 23 29 29 27 24
Those much more tense 3rd 4th and 5th strings of the usual sets of strings is one of the reasons I like the feel of Newtone Heritage 12s so much at 22 22 21 22 22 22 So much more of an even feel to them with the same sort of resistance to each.
I remember trying to find sets from the big makers of strings with that sort of even spread of tension but was 100% unsuccessful!
Mark
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 2, 2015 8:00:42 GMT
..................... Interesting with your figures that D'Addario True Mediums DADGAD at diameter:- 13 17 24 32 42 56 have tensions of:- 27 26 30 29 29 28 while Newtone Heritage DADGAD at diameter:- 13 17 20 27 36 59 have tensions of:- 20 20 21 20 20 21 Interesting on two counts. 1. There seems no similarity in the relationship of tension v diameters of the two sets which I guess underlines how much the engineering process of the way the string is formed / made has an effect on tension. ............................ Mark Tension is dependent on core gauge rather than the overall gauge of the string. Newtone tweak the tension of their wound strings by changing the core diameters and hence core/wrap ratio. This means that eg a Newtone wound 32 may have a different tension from other brands, and will be different in their Heritage sets when compared with their Masterclass sets. No idea why their plain strings tune to pitch at lower tension than the same gauge of other makes though, unless the composition of the alloy used makes a difference....? Keith
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 2, 2015 8:32:11 GMT
Tension is dependent on core gauge rather than the overall gauge of the string. Newtone tweak the tension of their wound strings by changing the core diameters and hence core/wrap ratio. This means that eg a Newtone wound 32 may have a different tension from other brands, and will be different in their Heritage sets when compared with their Masterclass sets. No idea why their plain strings tune to pitch at lower tension than the same gauge of other makes though, unless the composition of the alloy used makes a difference....? Keith I have found this to be right in practice. I use the Master Class series. These come up to pitch at a slightly lower tension than other strings I have used but this makes no difference to the sound produced. I'm not sure whether this is right or not but I have the impression that with alternative tunings — moving the 3rd up and down from G to F continually — the strings last longer between breakages! For me, the biggest benefit of Newtones is that they sound better when new and break in quicker. With D'Addario strings I often didn't feel right with them for a couple of days but the Newtones settle in more quickly. I'm comparing medium sets with medium sets. I have lights on my Martin J40 and so far have enough spare sets of D'Addario around that I haven't tried the Newtones yet. Must have an experiment.
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Jul 2, 2015 8:56:08 GMT
Yes - the shorter scale length reduces the tension. Imagine you took a longer scale guitar in standard tuning and capo'd it at the first fret. The capo acts more-or-less like a new nut, shortening the effective scale length of the strings to roughly that of a shorter scale. But it also raises the pitches of the strings a half-step. So to get it back into standard tuning, you detune all the strings a half-step. So the shorter scale length has caused you to reduce the tension on the strings. Which was why I used 10s on 24.75" scale electrics and 9s on 25.5" - meant they felt more the same. Thanks Mark - makes perfect sense even to me!
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Jul 2, 2015 8:58:28 GMT
For me, the biggest benefit of Newtones is that they sound better when new and break in quicker. With D'Addario strings I often didn't feel right with them for a couple of days but the Newtones settle in more quickly. Yes, these D'Addario were a bit dull at first but have livened up after a couple of hours playing.
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Jul 2, 2015 17:21:24 GMT
For me, the biggest benefit of Newtones is that they sound better when new and break in quicker. With D'Addario strings I often didn't feel right with them for a couple of days but the Newtones settle in more quickly. Yes, these D'Addario were a bit dull at first but have livened up after a couple of hours playing. Update: the 6th string has already given up the ghost
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