Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Jul 10, 2016 10:05:35 GMT
How many of us sing songs which we don't understand? How do we feel about that? Case in point: Flyin' Shoes by Townes Van Zandt, a version of which I posted in the Plucky Duck recently. It's all fine until the third verse: The mountain moon forever sets too soon Bein' alone is all the hills can do Alone and then her silver sails again And they will follow In their flyin' shoes, flyin' shoes They will follow in their flyin' shoes Now I was never much good at poetry but this makes no sense at all to me. I asked my wife, an ex English teacher, and she was stumped too. My conclusion is that dear old Townes probably put this one together whilst under the influence of something or other - he apparently struggled with drug and alcohol addiction throughout his adult life and there is a story about doctors reporting "He admits to hearing voices, mostly musical voices" (per Wikipedia, of course). Which leads me on to the question as to whether or not to carry on singing a song with a verse which as far as I'm concerned is gobbledygook. I'll bet that many in an audience would listen to it and think "Well I don't understand that but it no doubt has some deeper meaning that's beyond my intellectual capacity" - I would feel exactly the same. Some of course wouldn't be listening at all! If any of you can explain this verse to me, I'll take my hat off to you. If not, I guess I'll just carry on and if anyone comes and asks what that was all about, I'll just smile and say that it's complicated and would take far too long to explain
|
|
|
Post by seren on Jul 10, 2016 13:09:36 GMT
Maybe the lyrics have come from a deeply personal experience and has no relevance to the wider audience. Often lyrics from songs can also have no relevance to a recognised poetic form; sometimes they are just for phonetic value, only, to fit the song. How many times have we made up a melody, using nonsense words until something more 'cohesive' emerges? I can think of many songs I've listened to over the years where the lyrics are either too clever for my poor wee brain to understand or is just...random: Maybe if your expert wife cannot figure it out, us mortals can't, either.
|
|
|
Post by martinrowe on Jul 10, 2016 14:13:57 GMT
By the light of the silvery moon? When the moon sets the night is dark - the hills depend on the light, dark = alone, when the moon's light appears (sails) again the hills receive the light again (follow) (The rhythm of the day) Everything's connected. The light appears, disappears, appears, etc. We appear, disappear. He's on his way out? Perhaps, perhaps not. It's hard to know, perhaps he didn't understand - the words just seemed right. Perhaps sometimes the role of words is to provide an atmosphere, rather than some understanding - mystery exists. Good song though. (the above might well be 'bull' - it makes you think though) thanks
|
|
Wild Violet
Artist / Performer
Posts: 3,556
My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
|
Post by Wild Violet on Jul 10, 2016 15:28:45 GMT
just a line from a song that always bothers me - "Are we human, or are we dancer?"
|
|
|
Post by seren on Jul 10, 2016 15:45:36 GMT
"Are we human, or are we dancer?" Indeed!!! Gawd now I know I suffer from a written form of misophonia. Sheer torture, Lynn! No more, please!
|
|
|
Post by andyhowell on Jul 10, 2016 19:52:52 GMT
The man suffered from bi polar disorder (and he liked his substances) I wouldn't worry about the meaning - just enjoy the music :-)
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 33,973
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
Member is Online
|
Post by ocarolan on Jul 10, 2016 22:06:41 GMT
I don't pretend to always understand what the writer means by their words, but when singing solo I steer clear of songs I cannot identify with in some way. I can't "act" songs in the way some people can. Could be why I've never sung "I am the walrus." Keith
|
|
|
Post by scorpiodog on Jul 11, 2016 6:13:23 GMT
Could be why I've never sung "I am the walrus." Keith Didn't John Lennon explain (in Glass Onion, I think) "the walrus is Paul" . I ought to sing it! JL was notorious for writing songs with impenetrable words. Come Together is another one. Mind you TVZ was another one. Pancho & Lefty sounds like a story song, but what does it mean? Good thread, this.
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 33,973
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
Member is Online
|
Post by ocarolan on Jul 11, 2016 7:37:57 GMT
Could be why I've never sung "I am the walrus." Keith Didn't John Lennon explain (in Glass Onion, I think) "the walrus is Paul" . I ought to sing it! ..................... Indeed he did. I get that bit - it's the rest of the song that's the problem! "Stream of consciousness" writing I think he called it. More like drugs I reckon. Keith
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Jul 11, 2016 10:57:45 GMT
Interesting comments there folks. I think you're on to it martinrowe ! I've done some more Googling. Here's an extract from article by 'Rumer' in The Guardian: "Van Zandt found Flyin' Shoes at his nearby river, where he'd frequently sit and talk to the water. He was daydreaming about the Battle of Franklin, and the fate of wounded soldiers in the Civil War (both Confederates and Yankees) who were forced to lie there all night, awaiting rescue or death. The song is about a man who doesn't think he'll make it through to morning, but the lyrics are more universal. For me it reads like an ode to escape..." One J.M.Liles made this comment: "The song is about realizing ones fate and preparing for it. In this story it's a grim fate. Tying on the flyin' shoes is a clear reference to dying - taking the one last big trip. The storyteller would like to stay but he seems to have no choice. It's a very beautiful and yet at the same time completely hopeless song" More prosaically, Van Zandt's second wife apparently said the song was just about him having to leave home to go off on tour. I'm happy to go on singing it, more so now thanks to martinrowe's analysis of that third verse (an English Lit gold star to you!). Like ocarolan however, I'm not comfortable with reproducing lyrics that I just can't relate to, and I would definitely avoid songs which are deeply personal to the composer too. Wild Violet : Brandon Flowers says that the "Are we human, or are we dancer?" lyric was inspired by a disparaging comment made by Hunter S. Thompson, who stated that America was "raising a generation of dancers". The song was still voted the "weirdest lyric of all time" by a Blinkbox survey though.
|
|
|
Post by martinrowe on Jul 11, 2016 11:28:25 GMT
You probably know this, but he also wrote 'To Live is to Fly'. I first heard it by the Cowboy Junkies, another great song. An English Lit gold star? Skip that, I'll take a second hand Lowden instead.
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Jul 11, 2016 11:56:28 GMT
'Tis said "To Live Is To Fly" is inscribed on his tombstone.
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Jul 11, 2016 20:36:03 GMT
Skip that, I'll take a second hand Lowden instead. I think ocarolan may have just found that he has one surplus to requirements
|
|
|
Post by martinrowe on Jul 12, 2016 11:15:06 GMT
That's a result, I don't live very from him. I was just thinking. Does he know we've arranged this?
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Jul 12, 2016 11:59:48 GMT
That's a result, I don't live very from him. I was just thinking. Does he know we've arranged this? Probably. He's clearly decided not to respond ARE YOU THERE ocarolan???!!
|
|