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Post by littlemart on Mar 20, 2017 15:51:19 GMT
I'm fairly new in these parts, so apologies if this has been raised before (although a quick scout round didn't reveal anything on any other threads). I've been out of the loop, guitar playing wise, for a bit so just wondered if anyone had any views/opinions/experience of the above. I am looking for something of good quality and in the mid price bracket and came across K & K being mentioned. Any good? Over rated? Any advice gratefully received. Cheers, Martin.
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leitrimnick
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My main instrument is: Fylde Oberon
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Post by leitrimnick on Mar 20, 2017 16:48:03 GMT
I have the passive version fitted into two Fyldes and an old Harmony Sovereign used mainly for bottleneck. Quite happy with them but will add the proviso that I play out rarely although I have known complimentary comments on guitar sound. No idea of fitting costs as I fitted them myself, bit fiddly but ok... drilling the Fyldes for strapjacks was a bit frightening as I'm no luthier but all survived.
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Post by Vinny on Mar 20, 2017 16:49:42 GMT
Hi Martin,
I've installed these in three different guitars. Results in a Lowden O (jumbo) were a bit boomy but excellent in a mid size Avalon and also excellent in a Guild jumbo spruce and maple. The sound is very woody and much more natural than an undersaddle transducer but a preamp is a help. (Lots of online debate about impedance matching but Baggs Para d.i. works just as well as K&K preamp.) You will also get some body noise if you rub against the soundboard. I've found them fine without a preamp straight to a p.a. or to Aer amps (but you've no control of volume) but no experience with other amps.
Vinny
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Post by littlemart on Mar 20, 2017 17:16:10 GMT
Thanks for this. Looks like this could be a good option to go for then (unless anyone comes up with some horror stories of course!).
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Post by nkforster on Mar 20, 2017 17:43:39 GMT
I've tried almost every pickup there is, and the K&K minis are the best of the cheaper ones. Miles better than most undersaddle pickups. The amplified sound is fine (none of them are great) but most importantly the effect on the acoustic tone is minimal. I fit either them or DTar's which have a decent preamp. But the DTars are getting harder to source so I fit a lot of K&K's. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.com/
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Post by earthbalm on Mar 20, 2017 17:58:10 GMT
I fitted one to a Tanglewood TW1000SR and it works just fine.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Mar 20, 2017 20:34:28 GMT
I have K&K in several guitars and I would add my voice the view that they are boomy on bigger guitars but excellent with smaller bodies. My Kinscherff Troubadour has been gigged with more than any other guitar over the past ten years ( I've had it much longer than all my other guitars but one) and the K&K has always sounded very natural. The guitar is L00 size.
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mandovark
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Post by mandovark on Mar 20, 2017 22:55:56 GMT
I have K&Ks in two guitars and a mandolin. They give a nice woody tone, more natural-sounding than an undersaddle piezo, though also without the extra bit of punch that a piezo can give you in a loud mix. I'd agree with the comments about them being a bit boomy on bigger guitars - it's not that they distort the sound, but rather that they pick up more of the wood vibration that undersaddle systems tend to lose. That warm, rich bass that sounds so good acoustically can start to sound boomy when it's amplified through an amp or PA. That's always going to be the problem with amplifying the 'natural' sound of a guitar: the balance that sounds right at the instrument's natural volume level can start to sound a bit off when it's amplified.
That said, a decent preamp can help to reduce any unwanted boominess. I use mine through an Orchid preamp and it works fine.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 20, 2017 22:58:36 GMT
I use K&K minis in several guitars. I like them. Easy to fit yourself unless you are totally cack-handed - the first one can be scary, but with care it's fine - gave me the confidence to do several more for myself and for other people. I play through an Orchid acoustic preamp for preference (quickest to set up and adjust, best sound with a variety of instruments) or the K&K XLR preamp. As Vinny said, the Baggs Padi works fine despite all the gnashing of teeth on "another forum" about mismatch. I use one too, but find them not easy to get a good sound quickly, so I have the Baggs in my church band setup, where it stays on my carefully achieved default settings. Good results can even be had with just a Boss eq pedal. I have them in instruments as large as my Lowden O25 (and although it can be the trickiest to eq, I don't find it to be boomy at all, as a recently posted live video demonstrates) and as small as my Fylde Ariel - good sounds achievable quickly. My mid-size Fyldes Alex and Olivia work well too. Most of the time my preamp goes to PA, but occasionally to AER combo - slightly trickier to get great sounds, but usually get there - harder to tell when setting up unless I use a long lead, as I'm not overkeen on the close up sound of the AER, though the out front sound for the punters is great. The AER is usable without a separate preamp, but I like the extra mid control the preamp gives, plus some volume control at my fingertips without having to approach the amp. I prefer the K&K mini to the undersaddle pickups I've tried - the best of the latter was a Headway. That was fine in a band context, where the extra feedback resistance is useful, and the harsh unrealistic front end attack to the notes helps in a loud mix but for solo or more exposed sounding parts where a more natural sound is required the K&k easily wins. True, the K&K can pick up more extraneous body/handling noise than a UST, but I haven't found this to be a problem. Feedback resistance is good, though if you insist on full blast guitar from your monitor in a loud bass and drum heavy band then the K&K isn't ideal - and it's sound would be wasted anyway! I find that if I have two or more guitars and I set the eq for one of them, I can change guitars, leaving the same eq on preamp, and hear the difference between the guitars. The playing dynamics are more natural than USTs too. Extra advantage being passive is that for multi instrument setups you only need one outboard preamp. It is certainly possible to better the K&K mini sound, but it will cost more in terms of cost and faffing about. I reckon they are a good compromise, and one which works well for me. Keith Oh, and it's great to have no battery or excess wiring inside the guitar too. I also use K&K minis in my octave mandolin where, being a naturally middly sounding instrument, I often use me preamp and a Boss eq pedal for greater control. My mandolin has the K&K mando version in - lovely!
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Post by scorpiodog on Mar 21, 2017 0:38:09 GMT
I love K&K. I have them in a 00 (fab), a Venezuelan cuatro (fab) and a dread (care needed in vocal mic placement). I've never regretted them except when I didn't understand that a feedback problem was vocal mic placement.
I find they give a pretty close approximation of the sound of the instrument. And they're not expensive (about £110 fitted).
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Wild Violet
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My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Mar 21, 2017 10:14:54 GMT
I've never regretted them except when I didn't understand that a feedback problem was vocal mic placement. Can you explain it to me? I didn't know about this.
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Post by earthbalm on Mar 21, 2017 10:37:33 GMT
I don't mean to hijack a thread but does anybody else have praise for the Orchid preamp? I'd never heard of them until this thread. Dale
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 21, 2017 11:00:47 GMT
earthbalm - Dale - www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/acoustic.htmYes, they look a bit clunky and simple, but the sound is excellent, and the eq is remarkably effective with little tweaking. They do require phantom power though, which limits their use in some circumstances unless you have a separate phantom power supply (cheap, but more cabling etc). Keith
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Post by scorpiodog on Mar 21, 2017 11:21:22 GMT
I've never regretted them except when I didn't understand that a feedback problem was vocal mic placement. Can you explain it to me? I didn't know about this. In my case, and remember we use the Bose L1 Model 2, what happened was that we started to get feedback issues when I first bought the Martin HD28. Couldn't seem to cure it. Bought a feedback busting pedal and all sorts. Anyway, By accident, I turned off my mic in panic during one feedback episode, and the feedback stopped. Instantly. After experimenting we've come to the conclusion that, because I wear the guitar high, and sing very close to the mic, the guitar was feeding back through the vocal mic, and it had Much lessto do with the pickup. Now, I place the mic about a foot further away from the speaker array, and I have no problem at all. If this makes no sense it's because I have absolutely no understanding of things technical.
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Post by lavaman on Mar 21, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
Thumbs up for the K&K mini. I have them fitted on a 000-28VS, a 00-18V and a Collings OM2AH. In my opinion they give a more natural and finely balanced sound than an under saddle pickup. Also, there's no battery to run flat. The only downside is if you damp the strings at the bridge - say for playing blues, you have to be careful not to press too hard otherwise it can get a bit boomy. I use mine with an Orchid preamp which I'm very pleased with. On the tone controls, I set the treble at 12 o'clock, the mid at 9 o'clock and the bass at 10 o'clock. The Orchid does need phantom power which can be a problem with older PAs. The solution is buy one of these which I've found to work well. cpc.farnell.com/pulse/ph-psu-dual/phantom-power-supply-dual/dp/DP32532#techDocsHookIain
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