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Post by bob61 on May 18, 2017 5:05:23 GMT
Morning Folks if any of you write your own songs how do you go about it....Lyrics first? Music first? Do you come up with a song title and take it from there, just interested to know your ideas and views. Mine have been a bit of both or if someone has asked me to write a song on a particular subject but i find some of my favourite songs have come from a moment of inspiration or chance, i tried writing a full cd's worth of songs on our fishing industry past and present coming from a small fishing town (Grimsby) and having family and friends in the industry but it never really got off the ground cheers Bob
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007
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,601
My main instrument is: 1965 Hagstrom H45E
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Post by 007 on May 18, 2017 6:27:54 GMT
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Post by bob61 on May 18, 2017 7:02:21 GMT
Thanks for the link i have had a quick look but there's an awful lot of posts to browse through i write mainly for fun, but not put pen to paper for a long time due to work and i was playing with a covers Band and hardly picked my guitar up for 5 or so years But hopefully get back into it again as i'm no longer with a band and i only work part time now cheers Bob
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Post by andyhowell on May 18, 2017 7:12:38 GMT
We've been here before but not in such a focussed way and it is always worth comparing notes!
Sometimes I will have an idea or a story to tell but it only really lifts off with a tune. Sometimes it is just the tune. My recent song 'Annie Moore' (which is in the Plucky Duck forum) came from noodling. The tune I was playing seemed to me to be a song and not a pure tune. I played around with it for a while and a first line came out. That suggested some themes (I was somewhat obsessed with the Donald at the time), I did some Google research and there was the story. The lyric was completed and then the tune fine tuned, tuning settled on, best key for singing identified and so on.
So, more often than not it is the tune that drives.
Occasionally, I do start from a mainly lyrical position and this is always harder.
I have two songs at the moment that started lyrically and that have proved difficult. The first — The Ballad of Denmark Street — focuses on the redevelopment of an area that was very important to me in my young years. I struggled with verses three and four and a middle eight. Finally, I knuckled down and finished the lyric and then went back to fine tune the tune. The middle eight looked good on paper but it was crap and I can't sing it. It is still there waiting to be finished.
The second — John Adams — is an attempt to write a type of traditional sea faring song. This came out of a holiday in Dartmouth and it is based on a real event. The tune is really a rhythm (a la Carthy or Nic Jones) and the thrust of the song is the lyric. I know the story, where it has to go and where it has to end but it is proving to be very difficult. I will finish these songs. The Denmark Street song will never be as good as it was in my head. The John Adams song might work but at the moment there are too many sub standard lyrical lines.
Thinking about both of these (and you prompted me to do so) the absence of the focus on the tune simply means the whole thing doesn't flow properly. From this I guess that the tune is the most important component for progress.
Tunes don't have to be complicated but they do have to work. When I am playing live my Baltimore song (also in Plucky Duck) always goes down very well. It is a simple tune but one which drove the lyrics. I wrote it very quickly and without a great deal of thought. The popularity seems to come form it being country-tinged. In the last few days — struggling with another idea — a similarly simple country tinged tune came into my head, this time based on Pittsburgh (which I visited a year or so ago). I reckon this will be finished in no time at all (I'll try to finish it on Friday).
So, the tune rules for me. I have fragments of lyrics and storylines all over the place. Everyone and then one steps forward — but only when the tune becomes obvious.
I'm only a hack songwriter but I've seen similar comments from others who I really admire.
Finally, I am like you in that songs often come from the stories of the world around me. An idea, an issue, a rant — all of these make sense. But they only begin to shout out to be born once that tune emerges.
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,534
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 18, 2017 7:23:47 GMT
Words first 99% of the time. And, by words, I generally mean 'punchline'. Unless, of course, it's a parody, in which case the choon comes first as it already exists
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Post by andyhowell on May 18, 2017 7:26:51 GMT
Words first 99% of the time. And, by words, I generally mean 'punchline'. Unless, of course, it's a parody, in which case the choon comes first as it already exists You have created your own art form Leo :-)
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Post by bob61 on May 18, 2017 8:34:21 GMT
We've been here before but not in such a focussed way and it is always worth comparing notes! Sometimes I will have an idea or a story to tell but it only really lifts off with a tune. Sometimes it is just the tune. My recent song 'Annie Moore' (which is in the Plucky Duck forum) came from noodling. The tune I was playing seemed to me to be a song and not a pure tune. I played around with it for a while and a first line came out. That suggested some themes (I was somewhat obsessed with the Donald at the time), I did some Google research and there was the story. The lyric was completed and then the tune fine tuned, tuning settled on, best key for singing identified and so on. So, more often than not it is the tune that drives. Occasionally, I do start from a mainly lyrical position and this is always harder. I have two songs at the moment that started lyrically and that have proved difficult. The first — The Ballad of Denmark Street — focuses on the redevelopment of an area that was very important to me in my young years. I struggled with verses three and four and a middle eight. Finally, I knuckled down and finished the lyric and then went back to fine tune the tune. The middle eight looked good on paper but it was crap and I can't sing it. It is still there waiting to be finished. The second — John Adams — is an attempt to write a type of traditional sea faring song. This came out of a holiday in Dartmouth and it is based on a real event. The tune is really a rhythm (a la Carthy or Nic Jones) and the thrust of the song is the lyric. I know the story, where it has to go and where it has to end but it is proving to be very difficult. I will finish these songs. The Denmark Street song will never be as good as it was in my head. The John Adams song might work but at the moment there are too many sub standard lyrical lines. Thinking about both of these (and you prompted me to do so) the absence of the focus on the tune simply means the whole thing doesn't flow properly. From this I guess that the tune is the most important component for progress. Tunes don't have to be complicated but they do have to work. When I am playing live my Baltimore song (also in Plucky Duck) always goes down very well. It is a simple tune but one which drove the lyrics. I wrote it very quickly and without a great deal of thought. The popularity seems to come form it being country-tinged. In the last few days — struggling with another idea — a similarly simple country tinged tune came into my head, this time based on Pittsburgh (which I visited a year or so ago). I reckon this will be finished in no time at all (I'll try to finish it on Friday). So, the tune rules for me. I have fragments of lyrics and storylines all over the place. Everyone and then one steps forward — but only when the tune becomes obvious. I'm only a hack songwriter but I've seen similar comments from others who I really admire. Finally, I am like you in that songs often come from the stories of the world around me. An idea, an issue, a rant — all of these make sense. But they only begin to shout out to be born once that tune emerges. Thanks for the reply Andy i will take a look on plucky duck later still fairly new to the forum but seems to be some sound advice and feedback I don't take my songs seriously just a bit of fun often enough they remain unfinished a work in progress lol. I write a lot of poetry aswell because i'm not a particularly good Guitarist hence just for fun best of luck with your future songs cheers Bob
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Post by bob61 on May 18, 2017 8:35:20 GMT
Thanks for the replies folks
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,534
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on May 18, 2017 9:01:11 GMT
Three chords and the truth
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007
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,601
My main instrument is: 1965 Hagstrom H45E
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Post by 007 on May 18, 2017 9:32:31 GMT
Some basic rules that I use
Humour is good, Black humour even better
I will look at/ hear something in the news that sets my mind going or a phrase something someone says and construct a story round it. Toxic Tony (on plucky duck) came from Blairs emergence (again) in the political world and how IMHO he will always be remembered for an illegal war.
A song I wrote last year "Shadows in the Dark" also on PD, came from 2 separate phrases I heard and put together as they reminded me of a L Cohen song
So Lyrics first then the toon as Leo calls it and then the title
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Post by delb0y on May 18, 2017 10:56:25 GMT
For me it's words first usually, though sometimes a nice finger-picking lick that I've stumbled across stolen can inspire a melody. I always try and get a lake, a motorcycle, a dead girl, and a doomed love affair into my songs. For the sad songs I might also add some dark clouds and cold weather. Wherever possible I try and start with someone leaning against a lamp-post. My singing range approximates that of a bass hippopotamus with the vibrato of a scared sheep, so I prefer instrumentals.
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Post by andyhowell on May 18, 2017 13:35:53 GMT
Three chords and the truth Nah, two will do.
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Post by vikingblues on May 18, 2017 18:38:56 GMT
I have tried to write my own songs, but with limited success, not least in the difficulties of getting any ideas for a song in the first place.
Most often the method is that I have had on the back burner some sort of chord progression I have encountered, adapted (nicked), or liked. Then when (and if) a song-writing idea occurs the lyrics will be geared up to fitting that progression and timing.
But I think I've only managed two songs in the last 12 months, and three in the 12 months before that. Somewhat less than prolific.
It's finding the inspiration for subject matter and being able to start getting words onto the blank page or screen that are two huge hurdles. I've never shown any flair for language which doesn't help. Once I've got started it's most often much easier than I expect, particularly with using a rhyming dictionary to generate ideas (rather than just rhymes).
I did try the idea of picking an almost random subject and writing a song about it, which is supposed to be a good way of getting into a more regular routine of writing. It was a much better success than I expected and should have encouraged me to try again - an Arctic Ground Squirrel didn't seem a likely song subject. But I haven't managed to gee myself up for trying one of those efforts again and that song was in June last year.
Part of the trouble is there's so much to learn with just playing the guitar.
Mark
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Post by bellyshere on May 18, 2017 20:42:37 GMT
Write words all the time. Poems, stories etc. I pick up my guitar and find a nice melody. Add words.
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Post by bob61 on May 19, 2017 5:37:48 GMT
Thanks for all your replies some interesting views Although i pick my Guitar up and play and write a lot of poems and lyrics just lately found it difficult to add both I haven't really written any songs for a long time but must get back into it again I found an old demo with 8 songs on the other day which i have loaned to a friend i'm hoping for some feedback which might inspire me again cheers Bob
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