Akquarius
Cheerfully Optimistic
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My main instrument is: Towet Fingerpicker, Dreizehnter SJ15 "Akquarius"
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Post by Akquarius on Dec 19, 2018 13:22:05 GMT
I found an interesting comment about guitar tuning on youtube:
"You are correct that the guitar, all fretted instruments actually, are imperfect. It is in fact impossible for a fretted instrument to be perfectly in tune everywhere on the neck at the same time. If you want to see how the frets need to be installed in order to be in perfect tune everywhere, search "microtonal guitar". It's nuts. There is a better way. I learned this long ago from my instructor at the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore. Your guitar is in tune at the fret you tune it at. If you tune the open strings, they are in tune but the farther up the neck you go the farther out it is. Using a tuner, tune it in the middle of what you will be playing. If you are playing the most common chords pretty much all at the 5th fret down, tune your strings at the 3rd fret. If you're going to be all over the neck, tune at the 6th through 10th fret depending on where (higher or lower) the majority of your playing will be. Instead of being in tune at one end of the neck and out of tune at the other, you will be in tune in the middle and only a little out higher and lower. This is especially helpful when recording on a multi-track unit. Tune the guitar in the middle of the chords you will be playing for the rhythm track and retune it up higher in the middle of your leads to record that track. Also be aware that when you pick a string it is at one note and it goes slightly flat as it sustains. You'll notice this on your tuner. If you are going to be playing short note runs, tune at the moment you pick the string. If you are going to be playing sustaining chords, tune it a little later, after it sustains for a second or two. Beginners may not notice what a difference this method makes, but those with a good ear will be astonished."
What do the forumites think about this ?
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Post by jangarrack on Dec 19, 2018 13:40:54 GMT
This sounds interesting and I think I understand the theory of it, but never thought of going to the extent of tuning at various positions up and down the neck. I'm pretty sure my poor playing technique would quickly negate any tuning improvements made, and how does this work for pieces with open strings and up beyond the 12th fret?
This method is very straightforward and works well for me.
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Post by dangad on Dec 19, 2018 15:09:56 GMT
"If you want to see how the frets need to be installed in order to be in perfect tune everywhere, search "microtonal guitar". It's nuts." I'm not sure on this.... Isn't a microtonal guitar where they have added frets to include notes that are not part of the "western music" 8 note scale.
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Akquarius
Cheerfully Optimistic
Posts: 2,510
My main instrument is: Towet Fingerpicker, Dreizehnter SJ15 "Akquarius"
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Post by Akquarius on Dec 19, 2018 16:37:23 GMT
"If you want to see how the frets need to be installed in order to be in perfect tune everywhere, search "microtonal guitar". It's nuts." I'm not sure on this.... Isn't a microtonal guitar where they have added frets to include notes that are not part of the "western music" 8 note scale. I thought so, too, yes.
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
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My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Dec 19, 2018 16:38:37 GMT
What is this 'tuning' of which you speak?
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Post by dangad on Dec 19, 2018 16:54:47 GMT
I'm not sure on this.... Isn't a microtonal guitar where they have added frets to include notes that are not part of the "western music" 8 note scale. I thought so, too, yes. OK... Also was listening to a podcast with top luthier Michael Bashkin (who certainly knows more than me) talking about a guitar being in tune with itself as being the minimum requirement of a good builder so unless we're getting semantically nit picky about the use of the word "Perfectly" that'd be another chunk of this statement I'm not sure about....
...so all in all.. I would proceed with caution with the rest of it...
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Akquarius
Cheerfully Optimistic
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Post by Akquarius on Dec 19, 2018 17:24:07 GMT
...talking about a guitar being in tune with itself as being the minimum requirement of a good builder... Interesting. I've heard that half an hour ago
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Post by RodB on Dec 19, 2018 17:31:39 GMT
I found an interesting comment about guitar tuning on youtube: What do the forumites think about this ? Not much to be honest. My belief is that there is no reason why tuning should be further out as you go up the neck if the guitar has been compensated correctly. What is an issue is the placement of frets to provide equal temperament and this can require sweetening tunings depending on the key of the music and therefore the relationship of the fretted notes in that key. So not where you play but what key you are in. Then again I still think the tuning fork is an essential part of my kit.... (and yet to own a smartphone......)
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Dec 19, 2018 19:34:15 GMT
I found an interesting comment about guitar tuning on youtube: "............. Also be aware that when you pick a string it is at one note and it goes slightly flat as it sustains. You'll notice this on your tuner. If you are going to be playing short note runs, tune at the moment you pick the string. If you are going to be playing sustaining chords, tune it a little later, after it sustains for a second or two. Beginners may not notice what a difference this method makes, but those with a good ear will be astonished."What do the forumites think about this ? This bit is mostly strictly true, though badly expressed to begin with. The string plays sharp when picked (because of the extra tension applied) and then settles to the note relevant to the string length. So yes, lots of short, hard picked notes will sound more in tune when tuned to the attack of the note. A piece with lots of sustained notes may sound better with the note tuned to the string decay. Trouble is wtf do you do about open strings? Avoid them is one answer. The better solution, surely, is not to pick too hard, thus minimising the difference between the initial attack pitch and the sustain pitch. Tbh, unless you are obsessed by so called "tuners" you probably won't notice anyway, and probably many of us compensate for this effect in our playing automatically without ever giving it a thought. The difference in pitch is less than you obtain by fretting hard, or just enough. We live with these things because yes, the guitar is an imperfect imnstrument. Get over it and play music! Keith
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Dec 19, 2018 19:34:31 GMT
I think there may be something in it, but I would need to see some scientific back-up before being convinced. There are variables to take into account too, such as the quality (and thus accuracy) of the guitar fretting, how accurately one's ear hears the notes, the gauge of the strings and how hard they're plucked.
Fascinating video from Martin Taylor there looking at inharmonicity. I would argue it's a personal thing. It was interesting to note that he hears the treble strings as slightly flat against the tuner. I'm never happy until I've slightly flattened the B string after tuning. How any audience might hear that I really don't know. I'm always surprised how some players can play an entire song on an out of tune instrument in apparent blissful ignorance. You can't help not having good pitch but there's no excuse in this day and age.
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 19, 2018 19:42:03 GMT
Wot Keith said! Very true that if you don't pluck the strings with force is that this tuning issue doesn't really come into play and the open strings are fine ... useful when using a tuning so reliant on open strings as DADGAD! I'm inclined to notice with my playing that the lack of dynamic range and musical expressiveness as a result might be a negative though. Mark
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Andy P
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Post by Andy P on Dec 19, 2018 19:51:39 GMT
I wonder what Verdi would make of it?
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Post by martinrowe on Dec 19, 2018 21:28:34 GMT
Mandolin joke: People who play the mandolin spend half the time playing out of tune, and the other half trying to get it in tune.
Question: If I've been listening to out of tune string instruments for all of my life and I like the sound, then I must like the sound of out of tune string instruments - mustn't I?
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 20, 2018 8:04:17 GMT
I find a Snark tuner works well. Oh and tuning between each tune ;-)
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Dec 20, 2018 8:28:49 GMT
You also have to remember to tune your instrument to match the age profile of your audience and the mixed state of their hearing apparatus - aka ears and brain - and it gets even more complicated if there are lots of dogs in the audience
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