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Post by skyetripper on Mar 18, 2021 8:08:00 GMT
Everything I play is littered with rubato. Or more specifically bad timing. I won't join in with the music 'theory or not discussion' as I've always struggled to read music which doesn't help my cause. I do tend to agree that there are lots of flashy guitarists who don't really bring soul. But then then there are also a lot who do.
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Post by andyhowell on Mar 18, 2021 8:14:18 GMT
Everything I play is littered with rubato. Or more specifically bad timing. I won't join in with the music 'theory or not discussion' as I've always struggled to read music which doesn't help my cause. I do tend to agree that there are lots of flashy guitarists who don't really bring soul. But then then there are also a lot who do. Ah yes but the flashy guitarists with soul are the besy ones! I love the observation about bad timing. I can identify with that !!!
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Post by peterh on Mar 18, 2021 11:15:46 GMT
Works for me!!!! kind regrds Peter
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Mar 18, 2021 11:56:40 GMT
<quickly Googles 'Rubato'>
I agree
<don't know what I've agreed to or even if I should have>
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 18, 2021 12:57:40 GMT
Hmmm. When does rubato become interpretation and when does it become covering up playing flaws? How easy is it to tell the difference? Do we absolutely have to always play a piece of music the way it has previously been played? If we do, I feel like we are in hell! Most music is composed according to the constraints, fashions, and prejudices of the time - it doesn't seem wrong to me, if that means anything, that those rules can be broken in times to come. But please take all the above with a pinch of salt - I'm basically a philistine! Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Mar 18, 2021 15:53:03 GMT
Hmmm. When does rubato become interpretation and when does it become covering up playing flaws? How easy is it to tell the difference? Do we absolutely have to always play a piece of music the way it has previously been played? If we do, I feel like we are in hell! Most music is composed according to the constraints, fashions, and prejudices of the time - it doesn't seem wrong to me, if that means anything, that those rules can be broken in times to come. But please take all the above with a pinch of salt - I'm basically a philistine! Mark No you are not. One of the reasons I like traditional music is that even songs and tunes change and evolve, something that never happens with Dire Straits' Greatest Hits. Some songwriters lover covers of their songs as it gives them a new life and they know it has now become something else.
Classical music may seem more strict, and less adaptable to improvisation, but it is very subtle and without thechanges in approach by artists there would be no classical record buying industry. Come to think of it classic rock might be the most inflexible of all.
Rules are rules and — as you say — are made to be broken. (So long as it doesn't involve guitar tapping).
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Post by Matt Milton on Mar 19, 2021 11:14:01 GMT
When I was getting classical guitar lessons I was told by the teacher that Andres Segovia was WRONG and specifically that rubato has no place in classical guitar playing. Any deviation from a metronomic playing of the notes would be met with negativity.
Look on any classical guitar forum and you'll see this anti-Segovia stuff perpetuated. For goodness sake, the rubato is an interpretation device - he used it - get over it.
I know Segovia was criticized for using rubato when playing Bach (rightly so), he played everything as if it were Romantic. And apparently he used rubato for the tricky bits! Jonny Hmmm, well I'm not personally a Segovia fan but I would say that it depends where you feel 'rubato' officially starts - when do pauses or occasional slowing down on phrases officially become 'rubato'? I would say the vast majority of Bach recordings do this pretty regularly, including most of the respected, canonical 'best Bach' recordings by players like Rachel Podger or Mitsuko Uchida. Personally I'm in favour of a more 'metronomic' approach (though I wouldn't personally use that word) and I like solo Bach interpreters such as Glenn Gould (piano), Isabelle Faust (violin) or Julian Bream (guitar) who are closer to this. But even they are far from being machine-like. And I haven't listened to Julian Bream in a while so I could be completely wrong about his playing - perhaps he too could be said to use rubato - but from memory the way he phrases things just seems logical and satisfying to me.
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on Mar 22, 2021 9:28:35 GMT
Hmmm. When does rubato become interpretation and when does it become covering up playing flaws? How easy is it to tell the difference? Do we absolutely have to always play a piece of music the way it has previously been played? If we do, I feel like we are in hell! Most music is composed according to the constraints, fashions, and prejudices of the time - it doesn't seem wrong to me, if that means anything, that those rules can be broken in times to come. But please take all the above with a pinch of salt - I'm basically a philistine! Mark Long live philistines. Vikingur Olafsson would agree with you.
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Post by martinrowe on Mar 22, 2021 9:56:47 GMT
Thanks for that link walkingdecay I followed up Vikingur Olafsson on youtube. I now feel like I've just received a Ph.D. lesson in music. I'm 'like a dog with two tails not knowing which one to wag first.'
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 23, 2021 9:23:40 GMT
Hmmm. When does rubato become interpretation and when does it become covering up playing flaws? How easy is it to tell the difference? Do we absolutely have to always play a piece of music the way it has previously been played? If we do, I feel like we are in hell! Most music is composed according to the constraints, fashions, and prejudices of the time - it doesn't seem wrong to me, if that means anything, that those rules can be broken in times to come. But please take all the above with a pinch of salt - I'm basically a philistine! Mark Long live philistines. Vikingur Olafsson would agree with you.That did my philistine heart great good - loved the interview and the thoughts, and it's great he is getting positive responses from the critics. Following Martin's lead I've gone to YouTube and am enjoying some beautiful music from the man. Many thanks for posting this about him!!
Mark
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Post by jwills57 on Mar 27, 2021 0:18:56 GMT
There's a reason this kind of presentation ends up in the dust bin of discarded ideas--it's not that it's too complicated (which it probably is) but that it's not necessary. The literally millions of songs/tunes/compositions in the Western world, from Bach to Joplin to Django to whoever, all this brilliant, engaging, stimulating, emotive music, has all been made with the major scale and its more-or-less common derivatives and intervals. Why re-invent the wheel? I actually teach guitar, and most of my students have enough trouble understanding the Minor Pentatonic Scale and what can be done with it. So, not for me, I'm afraid.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Mar 27, 2021 16:05:44 GMT
I had a minor pentatonic scale. My dermatologist gave me some cream to clear it.
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