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Post by andyhowell on Mar 31, 2021 10:33:08 GMT
This should set the cat amongst the pigeons ...
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mandovark
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Post by mandovark on Mar 31, 2021 11:11:24 GMT
Interesting comparison. Both sound good, but to my ears the 'tonewood' one is better. The trebles sound similar, but for me the scrapwood one is muddier in the bass and low mids.
That said, I wonder if it's a bit of a false comparison. What he's calling 'scrapwood' is what I think most luthiers would call 'reclaimed tonewoods'. I wonder if this is aimed at a more mainstream audience, where people might be more inclined to think that if a guitar isn't made from mahogany or rosewood it isn't really a guitar, or that something can't be a tonewood if it used to be a bookcase. I can think of a few luthiers who probably make most of their guitars out of 'scrapwood' by this definition!
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 31, 2021 11:22:53 GMT
.. illustrates well that the concept of "tonewood" being different from other wood is a false one, though it makes for convenient terminology in many ways.
Whatever woods are used to make a guitar, those woods can be referred to as "tonewood".
Some woods have been more traditionally used to make instruments in the past because they were in plentiful supply nearish the point of manufacture. Consumers (prompted by manufacturers) have clung to the idea that these more trad woods are the only ones worth using to make a guitar, which has falsely fostered a wood/tonewood divide.
Thankfully in recent years, probably prompted by relative scarcity of and hence large price increases for, "traditional" timbers (often tropical hardwoods) a much wider range of wood has come to be used in guitar manufacture, particularly by smaller manufacturers and individual makers. In the latter case, proper care can be given to using each piece of wood in ways that bring out the best for the purpose.
Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about might be along soon....!
keith
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Post by andyhowell on Mar 31, 2021 14:58:50 GMT
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Post by geddarby on Mar 31, 2021 16:11:40 GMT
Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about might be along soon....! keith ocarolan were you thinking about leoroberts by any chance?
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Mar 31, 2021 16:54:33 GMT
Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about might be along soon....! keith ocarolan were you thinking about leoroberts by any chance? He's down at B&Q getting some mastergrade scrapwood to make himself a Panduri
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Post by robmc on Mar 31, 2021 19:29:07 GMT
I always had Leo down as more of a tandoori man
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Mar 31, 2021 22:26:37 GMT
Scrapwood v tonewood... I wouldn't dare to venture an opinion beyond saying that I have some marvellous instruments made from old, scrapped furniture and am delighted by the noise they make for me. I'm reminded of the saying that a weed is simply a flower in the wrong place...
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 1, 2021 9:29:22 GMT
I always had Leo down as more of a tandoori man Just never mention thick cut chips ...
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Post by vikingblues on Apr 1, 2021 9:32:10 GMT
The whole thing can be negated by the fact that two identically made guitars using the same tone woods can sound very different. To the extent of great and awful. Identical bracing for two different types of wood with different characteristics of density and vibration. That throws a spanner in the works straight away. In a way it would be more interesting if both guitars had been built by a skilled guitar maker who tried to maximise the two tops for responsiveness and sound and complemented that both by the best level of heaviness and design in the bracing to suit. Stop me if I'm getting too technical and th Mark
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Post by cgb on Apr 1, 2021 20:46:46 GMT
.. illustrates well that the concept of "tonewood" being different from other wood is a false one, though it makes for convenient terminology in many ways. Whatever woods are used to make a guitar, those woods can be referred to as "tonewood". Some woods have been more traditionally used to make instruments in the past because they were in plentiful supply nearish the point of manufacture. Consumers (prompted by manufacturers) have clung to the idea that these more trad woods are the only ones worth using to make a guitar, which has falsely fostered a wood/tonewood divide. Thankfully in recent years, probably prompted by relative scarcity of and hence large price increases for, "traditional" timbers (often tropical hardwoods) a much wider range of wood has come to be used in guitar manufacture, particularly by smaller manufacturers and individual makers. In the latter case, proper care can be given to using each piece of wood in ways that bring out the best for the purpose. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about might be along soon....! keith I remember hearing Mr Bucknall making comments to that effect - similarly he commented on the use of the word 'tone' as if it is a thing some instruments possess and some do not, when in reality tone is an endless range of sounds. A guitar may have a tone you don't like, but it still has 'tone'. I totally agree with him. I welcome the 'move' away from some of the more 'traditional' exotic hardwoods, mainly from an environmental point of view. I fully understand that instrument building is a tiny tiny drop in the ocean when it comes to deforestation, and global timber trade (and associated transport etc) but it is nice to see many builders using more locally (and/or sustainably) available timbers, if only for a bit of variety. I also personally like seeing things reused (I absolutely hate waste in all forms!) so again it is nice to see timbers being reused from old furniture etc.
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Post by otis1960 on Apr 1, 2021 22:13:30 GMT
You only have to look at Roger's 'Single Malt' Ariel to see what can be done with reclaimed 'scrapwood'. Adrian Lucas is another builder who prefers to work with reclaimed timber: Douglas Fir soundboard from an old door anyone?
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Post by skyetripper on Apr 2, 2021 7:31:31 GMT
Agree with all of the comments that surely any wood can be a tonewood, and many guitars made from cheaper products can be among the best sounding. However, particularly with luthier built guitars, the tone is surely as much a product of how the guitar is designed and assembled as it is (if not more so) than the woods used? But if you're buying an expensive, hand crafted guitar from one of the many fine luthiers out there, surely it's better to have it made with a fine and rarefied exotic wood, rather than an old pallet. I would say that though, if only because it makes me feel better about having one guitar made from African Blackwood and one from Cocobolo....
I think it's definitely worth checking out Tom Sands recent series of videos on the 'tap tone' properties of various woods (best with headphones) and I wonder if it's worth challenging him to continue the series to include some less exotic timbers?
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Post by minorkey on Apr 8, 2021 23:12:15 GMT
Wood is wood I guess, and even though I can hear a difference even on my phone, (the lows sound a bit muffled) the scrapwood one still sounds pretty good. Be great for blues! Where can we buy it ?
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