ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 20, 2022 22:02:53 GMT
..... When I'm experimenting with strings if I don't like them early on I like to take them off and save them then try them on another guitar at string changing time but of course you can't do that with round core strings. Phil ...you might well find that you can - once the string has been "kinked" at the post then that is usually enough to stop the windings going "sproing" on the core even though the very end has been trimmed. Worth a try if you're desperate - has worked for me on a couple of occasions. But actually, if you want to use DADGAD then the Masterclass series strings are probably a better bet if you find the heritage ones a bit floppy for you in DADGAD - I agree the Heritage DADGAD gauges seem a bit perverse! Although not specifically designed as low tension, the Masterclass sets still have a little less tension than many other strings when tuned to pitch; and they are certainly more flexible, which makes them feel bendier. Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 20, 2022 22:06:22 GMT
Hi Phil I'm guessing you have seen the Heritage DADGAD specific sets? I don't know how they differ from the 'standard' Heritage sets but they might be worth a try. Guy Yes I've seen those and I may try them but the guages looked a bit odd if I remember rightly. I like to be able to tune up to standard as well so I don't know how that would work. I suppose the only way is to try them. When I'm experimenting with strings if I don't like them early on I like to take them off and save them then try them on another guitar at string changing time but of course you can't do that with round core strings. Phil Hi Phil
I have seen what is supposed to be a workaround for the round core string having the core and the coiled wire detaching and the string going dead.
I've not tried it though.
1. Identify where you would normally cut/trim the string. 2. Put a tight 90 degree bend in the string at this point. 3. 2 cm beyond the bend you can cut/trim the string. The bend maintains the tension between the round core and the outer coil and should avoid the danger of a slippage and a dead string. I would reckon in theory that it should also allow the string to be removed and put on another guitar in the scenario I mentioned, as the bend will keep the inner round core gripped. Maybe??
Just in passing, and a bit off topic, one advantage I've seen claimed recently for round core strings is that because there's no gaps like those that appear between the hexagonal core and the outer wire wrap you don't get a build up of sweat and body oils that permeate through the windings - helping to increase the time that elapses before strings become dead sounding.
Mark
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 20, 2022 23:36:04 GMT
................ Just in passing, and a bit off topic, one advantage I've seen claimed recently for round core strings is that because there's no gaps like those that appear between the hexagonal core and the outer wire wrap you don't get a build up of sweat and body oils that permeate through the windings - helping to increase the time that elapses before strings become dead sounding. Mark
If you think about it there will inevitably be gaps between the (obviously round) wrap windings and the core of round core strings. It's just that the gaps will be a different shape from that which occurs with a hex core! Keith
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 21, 2022 8:54:54 GMT
Yes I've seen those and I may try them but the guages looked a bit odd if I remember rightly. I like to be able to tune up to standard as well so I don't know how that would work. I suppose the only way is to try them. When I'm experimenting with strings if I don't like them early on I like to take them off and save them then try them on another guitar at string changing time but of course you can't do that with round core strings. Phil Hi Phil
I have seen what is supposed to be a workaround for the round core string having the core and the coiled wire detaching and the string going dead.
I've not tried it though.
1. Identify where you would normally cut/trim the string. 2. Put a tight 90 degree bend in the string at this point. 3. 2 cm beyond the bend you can cut/trim the string. The bend maintains the tension between the round core and the outer coil and should avoid the danger of a slippage and a dead string. I would reckon in theory that it should also allow the string to be removed and put on another guitar in the scenario I mentioned, as the bend will keep the inner round core gripped. Maybe??
Just in passing, and a bit off topic, one advantage I've seen claimed recently for round core strings is that because there's no gaps like those that appear between the hexagonal core and the outer wire wrap you don't get a build up of sweat and body oils that permeate through the windings - helping to increase the time that elapses before strings become dead sounding.
Mark
It's interesting that there seems to be several different methods of winding round core strings on without everything unwrapping on you! Like you,I did wonder whether I should give this method a try Mark where you make a 9 degree bend in the string but frankly the method Neil at Newtone recommends in the video on the website is just so easy and I get a really neat wrap around the post every time. Also, when I remove a set to replace them I find that the old strings never unwrap so they can easily be installed on another guitar. I assume that once they have been installed and removed this stops any unwinding? I hadn't actually looked at the gauges available for the Heritage DADGAD sets and so didn't realise they were a bit odd. As previously mentioned, I did find it strange that there was no Heritage sets between 12-51 and 13-55 and as a result went for the Masterclass 11-50 and they are just spot on. As Keith suggests, I think the Masterclass would be the best Newtone option for DADGAD.
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Post by Onechordtrick on Feb 21, 2022 9:05:17 GMT
................ Just in passing, and a bit off topic, one advantage I've seen claimed recently for round core strings is that because there's no gaps like those that appear between the hexagonal core and the outer wire wrap you don't get a build up of sweat and body oils that permeate through the windings - helping to increase the time that elapses before strings become dead sounding. Mark
If you think about it there will inevitably be gaps between the (obviously round) wrap windings and the core of round core strings. It's just that the gaps will be a different shape from that which occurs with a hex core! Keith I think the gaps would be bigger with hexagonal cores? With a round core the wrap will fit snugly over the core whereas with a hexagonal core there will be a void under the wrap. In both cases there will be a gap between the wraps
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 21, 2022 16:13:38 GMT
I (eventually) found the site where I saw this stuff about the core types, windings, 90 degree bends and sweat! Probably best if you see what they say on there as they'll explain it way better than i have tried to. 'Hex and Round Core Strings Article'Mark
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 21, 2022 17:11:18 GMT
vikingblues - Thanks for finding that Mark, good searching! - unfortunately the article is full of unsubstantiated statements and factual inaccuracies. The diagrams are totally misleading - if you look at a section longitudinally along the string and at right angles to the view shown for round core strings the core wire would be shown as a straight bar, the wraps as a line of circles above and below it, in contact with it at max diameter of wrap wire. Obviously then in this view there are gaps between the wrap and core - almost like little triangles with one straight side and two curved ones, but in fact the "gaps" are just one gap (because the wrap winding is continuous) - a helical shaped gap along the length of the string. Hex-core strings in this view may take more visualising, but on the apices of the hex, the view will look the same as round cores. Rotate the core a little and the lines of circles representing the wrap would not be in contact with the core at all in that view. So the "gap" will still be helical, but more complex and varying in shape along the length of the string. The hex core total gap will be greater than the round core gap, but gaps indeed there are in both designs. Whether or nor "crud" actually permeates between the windings to the spaces I have no idea, but the phenomenon would affect both types of strings anyway. I would imagine (no proof) that the crud which definitely does accumulate on the outside of the string will end the life of the string before "internal" crud might. The text is misleading (and contradicts itself) - round core strings do not move as a complete core/wrap unit as stated hex-core ones do) - the wrap is free to slide up and down the core, which is what happens if you trim off the factory crimped end before crimping around the tuning peg as they later mention. Obviously when used properly the movement is small, but it gives these strings more perceived flexibility - this is apparent not only in use, but as soon as you unwrap them from the packet. Some of this is hard to express clearly/succinctly in writing, but a few moments spent thinking carefully about it, visualising the different strings will help! Keith
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Feb 21, 2022 18:53:01 GMT
Holy moly! Good job I'm getting deafer. (Booked a hearing test this Wednesday!)
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 21, 2022 19:31:32 GMT
vikingblues - Thanks for finding that Mark, good searching! - unfortunately the article is full of unsubstantiated statements and factual inaccuracies. The diagrams are totally misleading - if you look at a section longitudinally along the string and at right angles to the view shown for round core strings the core wire would be shown as a straight bar, the wraps as a line of circles above and below it, in contact with it at max diameter of wrap wire. Obviously then in this view there are gaps between the wrap and core - almost like little triangles with one straight side and two curved ones, but in fact the "gaps" are just one gap (because the wrap winding is continuous) - a helical shaped gap along the length of the string. Hex-core strings in this view may take more visualising, but on the apices of the hex, the view will look the same as round cores. Rotate the core a little and the lines of circles representing the wrap would not be in contact with the core at all in that view. So the "gap" will still be helical, but more complex and varying in shape along the length of the string. The hex core total gap will be greater than the round core gap, but gaps indeed there are in both designs. Whether or nor "crud" actually permeates between the windings to the spaces I have no idea, but the phenomenon would affect both types of strings anyway. I would imagine (no proof) that the crud which definitely does accumulate on the outside of the string will end the life of the string before "internal" crud might. The text is misleading (and contradicts itself) - round core strings do not move as a complete core/wrap unit as stated hex-core ones do) - the wrap is free to slide up and down the core, which is what happens if you trim off the factory crimped end before crimping around the tuning peg as they later mention. Obviously when used properly the movement is small, but it gives these strings more perceived flexibility - this is apparent not only in use, but as soon as you unwrap them from the packet. Some of this is hard to express clearly/succinctly in writing, but a few moments spent thinking carefully about it, visualising the different strings will help! Keith
Thanks Keith!
I'm glad I found it so scientific thought could be brought to the table, to bring truth to light.
I will need to sit and think hard about what you have written in an attempt to try to understand it, but I only have fuzzy thinking in my armoury! Pale fawn fluff in my head y'know.
But it just shows for the umpteenth time how the internet is a vast sea of knowledge, but also of misinformation.
Mark
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kaydee
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Post by kaydee on Feb 22, 2022 22:11:55 GMT
Sorry,I am coming to this discussion late but I too have been experimenting with low tension strings and was initially very impressed with the Newtone offerings,they do sound nice though the standard heritage low tensions cannot be tuned down to dadgad,I missed this point and had to revert to dadgad specific strings. Since then I have found my favourites,Santa cruz parabolic low tension,they are to be fair more expensive than newtone but to my ears they just sound nicer and they can be tuned down to dadgad without problems. So Santa cruz come in first with Newtones a close second ,no others get a look in. all the best
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 23, 2022 12:07:36 GMT
I had seen the Parabolic low tension strings but the cost put me off a little. Wherever possible I prefer to support UK businesses, and in particular smaller businesses, so my first port of call was Newtone. And they are excellent strings across the board! I have to say that the DR Sunbeams seem to have lasted longer than Newtone and sound great, but not significantly enough to jump ship and start using them. I will, however, try a set of the Parabolic strings as they sound like another great option.
I have always just stuck with D'addario/Martin strings assuming that there really isn't a huge amount of difference in sound and quality across the board but after seriously looking into low tension strings I have realised that there are definitely pro's and con's. However, it's great that we have an excellent UK company in Newtone that produce a really extensive range of strings that cover pretty much all the bases regardless of your needs.
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kaydee
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Post by kaydee on Feb 23, 2022 17:45:49 GMT
I agree Surfguy13,and I do like to buy british wherever possible,I still buy from Newtone but for dadgad strings.As far as the cost is concerned I do feel the Santa cruz strings are worth it,I was on a discussion on the AGF,(not a forum I am desperately keen on for several reasons.)The discussion was in regard to how often people change their strings.I have had a set of the santa cruz strings last easily for 18 months without any noticeable deterioration or tarnishing,Again Newtones are my first choice for dadgad and my second for standard tuning ,I have found the newtones don’t last quite as well with a couple of 3rd and 4th string breakages or the outer coils breaking,something I have not experienced on the Sant Cruz strings.On that basis and the fact that I have had them last for twice as long as the newtones (in standard tune) they are more or less the same on a cost per year basis. all the best
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Post by geddarby on Feb 24, 2022 10:13:28 GMT
Here’s one for the bluesmen
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 24, 2022 10:13:35 GMT
I agree Surfguy13,and I do like to buy british wherever possible,I still buy from Newtone but for dadgad strings.As far as the cost is concerned I do feel the Santa cruz strings are worth it,I was on a discussion on the AGF,(not a forum I am desperately keen on for several reasons.)The discussion was in regard to how often people change their strings.I have had a set of the santa cruz strings last easily for 18 months without any noticeable deterioration or tarnishing,Again Newtones are my first choice for dadgad and my second for standard tuning ,I have found the newtones don’t last quite as well with a couple of 3rd and 4th string breakages or the outer coils breaking,something I have not experienced on the Sant Cruz strings.On that basis and the fact that I have had them last for twice as long as the newtones (in standard tune) they are more or less the same on a cost per year basis. all the best Blimey, if the Santa Cruz strings are giving you that much life without any noticeable reduction in sound quality of degradation then it really is a no brainer. I will definitely buy a set! Where did you buy yours? I change my strings quite regularly as a matter of course and find that 4-6 weeks is about right, so 18 months is just mind-blowing. I have to be honest and say that I have had a set from both Newtone and DR that had slight tarnishing on the high E and B out of the packet. Also, and quite bizarrely, I have noticed a strange smell on the fingers after playing Newtone strings. Never had this before with any strings and I religiously use Fast Fret after playing. Also seem to get far more black residue on my fingers with Newtones. Really appreciate the heads up re Santa Cruz Parabolics....I look forward to trying them and I'll let you know how I get on. Guy
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Post by forestdweller on Feb 24, 2022 12:11:19 GMT
I've not much to add in the way of experience with low tension strings- I tend to use very high tension strings. I wish Newtone would finally bring out their long rumored coated strings as I kill these in about a week! But I just wanted to point out with regard to the santa Cruz strings that they have now released two sets of specifically Dadgad strings. Now, where does one find these in the UK? Here is an interesting review of them- note that the reviewer says the low tension set was also good for C based tunings as well www.pegheadnation.com/instruments-gear/new-gear/santa-cruz-dadgad-strings/Robbie
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