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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 23, 2021 11:54:36 GMT
I started this thread (https://acousticsoundboard.co.uk/thread/12783/altered-string-gauge-tension-strings) ages ago asking for a bit of advice on low tension strings as the arthritic lumps on my hands were/are getting really bad. Received loads of really helpful advice and comments and started trying different strings to see what would work and what wouldn't. I started with the Newtone Heritage strings (12-51) as these seemed to be closest to my 'usual' gauge which was between 12-54 and 12-55.5. I ordered a set of the Heritage and also a set of the Newtone Masterclass 12-52; Neil at Newtone explained that these are not low tension as such but, with the round core, were slightly lower tension than a standard set of PB 12-54s. On the positive side I found that the Heritage were a joy to play, a huge relief to have a set of strings that allowed me to play more or less normally. The reduced tension really does make life so much easier if you have issues with your hands. However, I did find that the Heritage set were inevitably lacking in bass response but I felt I could live with that and would get used to it. The biggest problem I had with the Heritage 11-51s was that I ran out of truss rod adjustment when trying to increase the bow in the neck. There is so little string pull that I simply could not get enough air under the strings. I don't play with a high action but really don't like any fret buzz anywhere on the neck. I then tried the Masterclass 12-52s and I immediately had the bass response back which just confirmed how much I'd missed it with the Heritage set! My only acoustic is an Oxwood OM which has an amazing bottom end and the Masterclass set just brought the guitar back to life. The downside was that even though they were much lighter than my standard gauge I was still having difficulty with my hands. I did persevere but concluded that I needed a lighter gauge. I looked at the Heritage strings again to see if I could jump to the next gauge up but that was 13-55 and Neil suggested that these would be the equivalent of a standard 12-54 set, so not an option. I was then given 2 sets of DR Sunbeams, 11-50, by a friend as he had bought a few sets and they were too light for him. These also use a round core but are not low tension as I understand it. I have been using them now for a month and gone through both sets and they are just perfect in every way. I love the feel of the strings and the even though the low E is a 50, it still seems to give me a really acceptable level of bass. The E and B do feel very strange on an acoustic but I have now got used them. So, very happy bunny and will be ordering a few sets of Masterclass 11-50 in the New Year. Thanks to everybody that contributed to my original thread, couldn't have done this without you!!
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Post by jangarrack on Dec 23, 2021 13:38:02 GMT
surfguy13, this is a very useful summary of your string journey. I've tried all the strings you mention apart from the Sunbeams and had similar results except for the Newtone Heritage (mine were 11-47s) which worked well on an old Martin OM but not so well on anything else. That was quite a few years ago now and I ended up using and sticking with D'ADDARIO NB1252BT Nickel Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings, 12-52 Light Balanced Tension strings. They're marketed as balanced rather than low tension, but for me, they feel much more comfortable to play, with the bonus that they sound great and last for ages. Given your experience with the Sunbeams, I'm tempted to give them a try.
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 23, 2021 13:45:08 GMT
Thanks for this jangarrack. It hasn't really been much of a journey but the great thing is that I ended up with the right strings! It's interesting that you've been down a parallel road. Really interesting to know about the D'Addario 1252BT. I wonder if they do a phosphor bronze version, I'll have to have a look around. I'm a big fan of D'Addarion strings. I think the Newtone Masterclass 11-50 will be very similar to the DRs, if not better. Added bonus that they're made in the UK!
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 23, 2021 20:27:08 GMT
It's tricky sometimes managing to balance ease of playing on a particular guitar with maintaining the right sort of sound. Resulting often in a lot of trial and error, or indeed a journey. Glad to hear that you've found a set / type of strings that work so well! Mark PS - I was surprised about the truss rod / neck relief issue on the Heritage front. I've had issues with them not sounding right on some of my guitars but not that problem. Every guitar is different and that's more trial and error in the search if you have a few guitars.
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Post by dreadnought28 on Dec 24, 2021 8:14:50 GMT
Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Have you tried a shim under the saddle to raise the action as the truss rod won’t adjust enough?
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 24, 2021 9:10:33 GMT
Very interesting. Thanks for posting. Have you tried a shim under the saddle to raise the action as the truss rod won’t adjust enough? That was going to be the next step if I was unable to find a gauge of strings that would work. I'd even thought I might have to install a new nut. However, the 11-50 strings work so well and give me as much truss rod adjustment as I need with this gauge so I'm going to give them 6 months and re-assess. Just really happy to find that perfect compromise between playability and a nice round bass response.
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 24, 2021 9:23:23 GMT
It's tricky sometimes managing to balance ease of playing on a particular guitar with maintaining the right sort of sound. Resulting often in a lot of trial and error, or indeed a journey. Glad to hear that you've found a set / type of strings that work so well! Mark PS - I was surprised about the truss rod / neck relief issue on the Heritage front. I've had issues with them not sounding right on some of my guitars but not that problem. Every guitar is different and that's more trial and error in the search if you have a few guitars. I was surprised too Mark. It is something that has never happened to me before with any guitar or bass but I guess I have never played low tension strings before. The Heritage strings sounded really nice, and allowed me to play almost normally, but the 12-51 set really do feel light. Of course we're all different and it maybe something to do with the fact that I prefer a 'medium' action and absolutely no buzzing at all. The truss rod is functioning perfectly and has worked exactly as it should with every other gauge I've tried, and I have tried quite a few different gauges from 12.5-55.5 on a standard PB set all the way down to the 12-51 PB Heritage set and it was only the Heritage set that I had the problem with. As you say, it would have been easier if I had several guitars but as this is now my only acoustic it has to be all things to all men!
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Feb 19, 2022 10:40:38 GMT
I usually use 12's Elixirs but I'm trying some Newtone Heritage 12's on my Lamorna and they seem quite nice sounding and definitely easier to press down particularly in DADGAD obviously.
It's a bit difficult trying to remember a week or so after changing them but I think there may be a difference in volume as in not as loud? Is that something anyone else noticed?
Phil
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 19, 2022 19:56:19 GMT
My two most recent acoustic guitar acquisitions had Elixir 12s on them when purchased and the strings in good condition. My recollection is that there probably was a small drop in volume when I put Newtone Heritage 12s on them, but it was very minor. I think! I felt that the extra resonance I was getting more than made up for any volume drop and made the sound more interesting. But these were both cedar top guitars. Unfashionably*, most of my acoustic guitars are cedar top, and as such have the typical quieter cedar projection. I don't have recent experience of Heritage with spruce, but I know how they haven't suited mahogany guitars I've had. On these what happened to the sound when changing to the Heritage was different - and quite unpleasant. I can't remember what sort of wood your Lamorna is Phil, but if it's not cedar then my experience is probably of limited value to your question. Mark * Unfashionable cedar - there were a lot fewer cedar top guitars around when I was looking for instruments last year, and some brand models that had been cedar were now spruce. I suspect there's either a shortage of the wood, or more likely it's more expensive and prohibitive for makers of guitars in my lower budget range.
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Post by Phil Taylor on Feb 19, 2022 23:54:59 GMT
My two most recent acoustic guitar acquisitions had Elixir 12s on them when purchased and the strings in good condition. My recollection is that there probably was a small drop in volume when I put Newtone Heritage 12s on them, but it was very minor. I think! I felt that the extra resonance I was getting more than made up for any volume drop and made the sound more interesting. But these were both cedar top guitars. Unfashionably*, most of my acoustic guitars are cedar top, and as such have the typical quieter cedar projection. I don't have recent experience of Heritage with spruce, but I know how they haven't suited mahogany guitars I've had. On these what happened to the sound when changing to the Heritage was different - and quite unpleasant. I can't remember what sort of wood your Lamorna is Phil, but if it's not cedar then my experience is probably of limited value to your question. Mark * Unfashionable cedar - there were a lot fewer cedar top guitars around when I was looking for instruments last year, and some brand models that had been cedar were now spruce. I suspect there's either a shortage of the wood, or more likely it's more expensive and prohibitive for makers of guitars in my lower budget range. Thanks Mark, my Lamorna is walnut with Adirondack spruce. I do quite like them so far but not tried them recording yet so that will be interesting. Phil
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 20, 2022 9:38:04 GMT
I think the key here may be the fact that Newtones have round cores rather than hex? Whether this makes any difference at all to volume I'm not sure but as Phil says, a week after putting a new set on it is so hard to remember how the last set sounded!
I have not gone down the Newtone 'low tension' string route as there is nothing between the 12-51 set and the 13-55. The 12-51 were just too light and the 13-55 would have been the equivalent to a 'standard' set of 12-54; too heavy. So, I have now decided that the Masterclass SS 11-50 are a perfect string for me. They are very close to 'normal' tension although slightly lower tension than, say, a Daddario equivalent. I haven't noticed any reduction in volume and the strings are superb. A perfect halfway house.
I have also tried the DR Sunbeams and they are every bit as good as the Newtone masterclass SS sets and interestingly they also use a round core. It is extremely difficult to find 11-50 gauge strings and Newtone and DR seem to be the only high quality brands out there. I can heartily recommend both. It has been a journey to find the right strings to suit this particular guitar (spruce/mahogany) and also my arthritic hands, but this gauge works so well in terms of playability, and also sound quality and volume, that it will be my default from here on in.
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Post by Phil Taylor on Feb 20, 2022 16:37:51 GMT
Hi surfguy13 I think I have now established that the volume is ok in standard but drops off when detuned to DAGAD so possibly the Heritage 12’s aren’t for me but I’ll leave them on for a few weeks and try recording too. Phil
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Post by surfguy13 on Feb 20, 2022 17:27:10 GMT
Hi Phil
I'm guessing you have seen the Heritage DADGAD specific sets? I don't know how they differ from the 'standard' Heritage sets but they might be worth a try.
Guy
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 20, 2022 17:59:52 GMT
Hi Phil I'm guessing you have seen the Heritage DADGAD specific sets? I don't know how they differ from the 'standard' Heritage sets but they might be worth a try. Guy Good point Guy. That could work for Phil &/or Phil's guitar.
I have tried a set myself but it sadly didn't work for me despite my playing nearly everything in DADGAD. It was the sound didn't sit right. But it depends on the guitar and it depends on the player.
As always with finding the right strings it's a random pot luck we need to take part in.
Mark
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Post by Phil Taylor on Feb 20, 2022 18:43:09 GMT
Hi Phil I'm guessing you have seen the Heritage DADGAD specific sets? I don't know how they differ from the 'standard' Heritage sets but they might be worth a try. Guy Yes I've seen those and I may try them but the guages looked a bit odd if I remember rightly. I like to be able to tune up to standard as well so I don't know how that would work. I suppose the only way is to try them. When I'm experimenting with strings if I don't like them early on I like to take them off and save them then try them on another guitar at string changing time but of course you can't do that with round core strings. Phil
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