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Post by PistolPete on Apr 14, 2022 8:05:41 GMT
So, my latest acquisition came fitted with an AER ak15 pickup, which is a dual source UST and internal mic. On paper that sounded perfect, but in practice I've not been terribly happy with it: - The jack socket is dodgy* - It runs really hot and seems very feedback prone - The tone seems to be all UST and no mic, even when the blend is set to put the maximum amount of mic in. So for those reasons I'm toying with changing it. I have an Anthem SL in my Gretsch, which I love, and is totally idiot proof, but does tend to give it a lot more bass than its real-life sound. I have K&Ks in my Yamaha & Gibson, which I like, but probably less than the Anthem, and I find lugging an external pre-amp around a bit of a pain, particularly when it comes to minimal-sound-check situations. So I'm tempted to swap out the AER for another Anthem**, but since they still come with a pretty hefty price tag I'm curious what else is out there in the "internal mic plus" category? I feel like the technology should have moved on, at least a bit, since I had mine installed in 2014, but I haven't really kept pace with what the options are. *I'm not sure whether this will be an easy take-it-apart-and-screw-it-back-together fix or a whole-new-pickup issue since the internal electrics are part of the same unit. ** Maybe another SL, maybe I'd splash out on the full control unit.
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Post by gsans on Apr 17, 2022 20:11:50 GMT
Until I got my current setup I'd been looking for a while and tried a few different options - I'm tempted to say that the dual-source world hasn't moved on heaps in the past couple of years. Lots of people still using the Anthem for sure. Some people might recommend the ToneDexter to you - I didn't get on with it at all, but I know people who get good results with it. If you're after soundhole pickup + mic, lots of people use the Mimesis Kudos and I think Fishman make something similar which might be a little cheaper. Soundhole pickups aren't my thing particularly so no experience there sorry! I've ended up at a K&K Pure Mini with a mic wired into the stereo output jack. Similar to the K&K Trinity system but with a different brand of mic (one advantage being I can use a non K&K branded preamp with better EQ options etc). I definitely have to use an external preamp for this setup - same with a lot of blending systems to get the most of out of them I think. One plus with this system however is that you can still plug in a mono jack and it works (you just get the pickup signal and no mic). That's particularly useful if you're in a situation where you have to use someone else's gear with your guitar, and just want the pickup signal without introducing any mic complications. For what it's worth, this is the system I have in both my guitars and it's the happiest I've ever been with my amplified sound. However, this system works for me because I like the sound of the K&K - so it's not worth it if you don't like that sound as much to start with! If you like the Anthem in your other guitar, it might be worth scouting around for a used one online. I think if you've found a pickup that gives you a sound you love, then stick with it! And then if there's a few tweaks needed, with something like a Baggs Para Acoustic DI (again, available used for much less than RRP), you can easily tame the excess bass etc. Bit long-winded but hopefully you get the gist - start with the pickup sound you like the most and take it from there!
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Post by jackorion on Apr 23, 2022 18:04:20 GMT
Best plug-in-and-play tone I've ever had was the anthem SL in my OM28v - never let me down, always sounded great, easy setup.
Changed to a k&k/dpa4061 setup with a Grace Felix preamp now - it does sound better ('bigger' is the phrase I'd use) but it's more hassle and a lot more expense...
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Post by Cams on Apr 24, 2022 8:57:07 GMT
I've experimented with a few different pickups and the Anthem is the most hassle-free rig I've ever had. I have the full-fat version rather than the SL and it goes into a Baggs Venue DI. The DI does need power so it is a bit more of a faff. If you really cba carrying a DI, the Baggs Para-acoustic DI is a no brainer. It runs off a 9v battery and is very small and fits in a gig bag pocket. I would use that but I've lent mine out on what appears to be permanent loan.
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Post by soundout on Apr 25, 2022 23:10:46 GMT
Until I got my current setup I'd been looking for a while and tried a few different options - I'm tempted to say that the dual-source world hasn't moved on heaps in the past couple of years. Lots of people still using the Anthem for sure. Some people might recommend the ToneDexter to you - I didn't get on with it at all, but I know people who get good results with it. If you're after soundhole pickup + mic, lots of people use the Mimesis Kudos and I think Fishman make something similar which might be a little cheaper. Soundhole pickups aren't my thing particularly so no experience there sorry! I've ended up at a K&K Pure Mini with a mic wired into the stereo output jack. Similar to the K&K Trinity system but with a different brand of mic (one advantage being I can use a non K&K branded preamp with better EQ options etc). I definitely have to use an external preamp for this setup - same with a lot of blending systems to get the most of out of them I think. One plus with this system however is that you can still plug in a mono jack and it works (you just get the pickup signal and no mic). That's particularly useful if you're in a situation where you have to use someone else's gear with your guitar, and just want the pickup signal without introducing any mic complications. For what it's worth, this is the system I have in both my guitars and it's the happiest I've ever been with my amplified sound. However, this system works for me because I like the sound of the K&K - so it's not worth it if you don't like that sound as much to start with! If you like the Anthem in your other guitar, it might be worth scouting around for a used one online. I think if you've found a pickup that gives you a sound you love, then stick with it! And then if there's a few tweaks needed, with something like a Baggs Para Acoustic DI (again, available used for much less than RRP), you can easily tame the excess bass etc. Bit long-winded but hopefully you get the gist - start with the pickup sound you like the most and take it from there! Hello George, long-winded? Nah, look at my posts, now THAT’S long-winded! Of course I’ve followed your pickup/mic saga with interest, since you got some of the stuff from me. Do I take it that those mics you refer to are the Crown GLM 200s? Such a shame they are unavailable any more. i also took a look at the Mimesis Dual source and was surprised to see that Mike Vanden uses omnidirectional mics, whereas on his (and Fishman’s) original versions, cardioid were used. Cardioid makes much more sense to me in terms of feedback rejection and being able to be positioned ‘just so’ to get the sound you’re after. PistolPete, I’ve heard those AER systems a few times and they sounded great to me - my opinion, from your description, would be that either your system has a fault, or that for some reason, power is not reaching the microphone. You suspect your jack socket and I would have someone who knows their way around a multimeter check out the connections. Generally, I can only agree that properly dialled-in dual source systems give fantastic sound, but I’ll stick by my conversion to the ToneDexter for ease of use.
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Post by PistolPete on Apr 26, 2022 9:40:25 GMT
PistolPete, I’ve heard those AER systems a few times and they sounded great to me - my opinion, from your description, would be that either your system has a fault, or that for some reason, power is not reaching the microphone. You suspect your jack socket and I would have someone who knows their way around a multimeter check out the connections. Generally, I can only agree that properly dialled-in dual source systems give fantastic sound, but I’ll stick by my conversion to the ToneDexter for ease of use. Interesting thought, but it doesn't quite ring true with my experience. I can't imagine that it would generate feedback in the way it does if the mic wasn't live - and the blend control does make a difference, just not as much as I would expect. The jack socket issue is that it seems to spit out cables mid song - looking at it, it seems as though the outer strap button part is protruding too far and not allowing the jack to seat properly. Not sure how significant it is, but it's an older version, rather than the newer "plus" model. All that said I did put some new heavier strings on the guitar yesterday and it will be testing it out this week to see if that makes a difference to the plugged-in sound and what I was hearing was just the top not moving enough for my tastes. They've certainly helped balance the acoustic tone. If I am happier with the sound, I will probably just see what a tech can do about the jack socket and live with it a while before I embark on any big spending, not least because I would much prefer a £10 fix to a £200 one!
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 26, 2022 10:32:08 GMT
............The jack socket issue is that it seems to spit out cables mid song - looking at it, it seems as though the outer strap button part is protruding too far and not allowing the jack to seat properly....................I will probably just see what a tech can do about the jack socket ............. If the jack plug isn't seating firmly then you can fix that yourself - you've already almost identified the problem. The inner barrel does not protrude enough from the guitar - it should stick out far enough that when the strap button ring is screwed on there is still approx 2mm of the inner barrel protruding. Then your jack can get to where it needs to go and stay there. You need to undo the nut on the outside of the guitar a little, then screw the inner nut further away from the open end of the barrel so it pushes through a little more, then tighten the ouside nut again and try the strap button bit back on, chacking for enough/not too much protrusion of the inner barrel. Trial and error may be needed, but in essence is simple to do with a bit of firkling inside the guitar. Good luck! Keith
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Post by PistolPete on Apr 26, 2022 17:38:32 GMT
............The jack socket issue is that it seems to spit out cables mid song - looking at it, it seems as though the outer strap button part is protruding too far and not allowing the jack to seat properly....................I will probably just see what a tech can do about the jack socket ............. If the jack plug isn't seating firmly then you can fix that yourself - you've already almost identified the problem. The inner barrel does not protrude enough from the guitar - it should stick out far enough that when the strap button ring is screwed on there is still approx 2mm of the inner barrel protruding. Then your jack can get to where it needs to go and stay there. You need to undo the nut on the outside of the guitar a little, then screw the inner nut further away from the open end of the barrel so it pushes through a little more, then tighten the ouside nut again and try the strap button bit back on, chacking for enough/not too much protrusion of the inner barrel. Trial and error may be needed, but in essence is simple to do with a bit of firkling inside the guitar. Good luck! Keith Spurred on by your encouraging words I have successfully fixed the jack socket with only some minor damage from the pliers (to the socket, not the guitar)! Whilst aware of the procedure, I had previously been somewhat nervous of attempting such a manoeuvre as the last time I did it on another guitar I knackered the thread on the socket so it wouldn't go back together.
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Post by gsans on Apr 26, 2022 23:01:11 GMT
Hello George, long-winded? Nah, look at my posts, now THAT’S long-winded! Of course I’ve followed your pickup/mic saga with interest, since you got some of the stuff from me. Do I take it that those mics you refer to are the Crown GLM 200s? Such a shame they are unavailable any more. i also took a look at the Mimesis Dual source and was surprised to see that Mike Vanden uses omnidirectional mics, whereas on his (and Fishman’s) original versions, cardioid were used. Cardioid makes much more sense to me in terms of feedback rejection and being able to be positioned ‘just so’ to get the sound you’re after. PistolPete, I’ve heard those AER systems a few times and they sounded great to me - my opinion, from your description, would be that either your system has a fault, or that for some reason, power is not reaching the microphone. You suspect your jack socket and I would have someone who knows their way around a multimeter check out the connections. Generally, I can only agree that properly dialled-in dual source systems give fantastic sound, but I’ll stick by my conversion to the ToneDexter for ease of use. Hi Alistair! Yeah those are the ones, working out well for me thanks! Got them in both my guitars. I heard someone using a K&K + DPA4061 (which is omnidirectional) recently which sounded really good out front - I suppose if you only blend in a small amount and EQ/high-pass filter appropriately then there's probably not too much in it really. Not sure how it behaves in front of monitors though! But yes I definitely do like the Crown GLMs, as you say shame they're no longer made. Know of any other equivalents out there?
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Post by juliant on May 21, 2022 17:59:54 GMT
Similar to the K&K Trinity system but with a different brand of mic (one advantage being I can use a non K&K branded preamp with better EQ options etc)
I've got Trinity systems in two guitars, and have no problem using other preamps. I bought the second one as a 'bare' package without the preamp, figuring that I wouldn't ever use two at once.
I've got a Baggs MixPro, and find I prefer it to the K&K, where it works absolutely fine. I'm currently looking to get a 9V feed put into the K&K so I can put it on a pedalboard and not have to mess about with batteries.
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Post by gsans on May 22, 2022 8:13:30 GMT
Similar to the K&K Trinity system but with a different brand of mic (one advantage being I can use a non K&K branded preamp with better EQ options etc)I've got Trinity systems in two guitars, and have no problem using other preamps. I bought the second one as a 'bare' package without the preamp, figuring that I wouldn't ever use two at once. I've got a Baggs MixPro, and find I prefer it to the K&K, where it works absolutely fine. I'm currently looking to get a 9V feed put into the K&K so I can put it on a pedalboard and not have to mess about with batteries. Apologies, my comment was badly worded! More to say that there is greater choice of preamps, perhaps. I've not tested this as I don't have the Trinity mic, but I believe a couple of years ago K&K changed their mic so that it's limited to 9v, and won't work if the preamp provides more than 9v. This rules out some of the twin channel blending preamps like the DTAR Solstice (15v) and Grace Felix (12v), but the Baggs MixPro provides 9v so no problems there. As I say, I've not tested this - didn't want to buy and install the trinity system only to find it didn't work with my choice of preamp - so I'm very open to hear anyone's experiences. Sounds like a good plan there with the 9v feed, batteries can be a pain!
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Post by jackorion on May 22, 2022 8:38:09 GMT
Until I got my current setup I'd been looking for a while and tried a few different options - I'm tempted to say that the dual-source world hasn't moved on heaps in the past couple of years. Lots of people still using the Anthem for sure. Some people might recommend the ToneDexter to you - I didn't get on with it at all, but I know people who get good results with it. If you're after soundhole pickup + mic, lots of people use the Mimesis Kudos and I think Fishman make something similar which might be a little cheaper. Soundhole pickups aren't my thing particularly so no experience there sorry! I've ended up at a K&K Pure Mini with a mic wired into the stereo output jack. Similar to the K&K Trinity system but with a different brand of mic (one advantage being I can use a non K&K branded preamp with better EQ options etc). I definitely have to use an external preamp for this setup - same with a lot of blending systems to get the most of out of them I think. One plus with this system however is that you can still plug in a mono jack and it works (you just get the pickup signal and no mic). That's particularly useful if you're in a situation where you have to use someone else's gear with your guitar, and just want the pickup signal without introducing any mic complications. For what it's worth, this is the system I have in both my guitars and it's the happiest I've ever been with my amplified sound. However, this system works for me because I like the sound of the K&K - so it's not worth it if you don't like that sound as much to start with! If you like the Anthem in your other guitar, it might be worth scouting around for a used one online. I think if you've found a pickup that gives you a sound you love, then stick with it! And then if there's a few tweaks needed, with something like a Baggs Para Acoustic DI (again, available used for much less than RRP), you can easily tame the excess bass etc. Bit long-winded but hopefully you get the gist - start with the pickup sound you like the most and take it from there! Hello George, long-winded? Nah, look at my posts, now THAT’S long-winded! Of course I’ve followed your pickup/mic saga with interest, since you got some of the stuff from me. Do I take it that those mics you refer to are the Crown GLM 200s? Such a shame they are unavailable any more. i also took a look at the Mimesis Dual source and was surprised to see that Mike Vanden uses omnidirectional mics, whereas on his (and Fishman’s) original versions, cardioid were used. Cardioid makes much more sense to me in terms of feedback rejection and being able to be positioned ‘just so’ to get the sound you’re after. PistolPete, I’ve heard those AER systems a few times and they sounded great to me - my opinion, from your description, would be that either your system has a fault, or that for some reason, power is not reaching the microphone. You suspect your jack socket and I would have someone who knows their way around a multimeter check out the connections. Generally, I can only agree that properly dialled-in dual source systems give fantastic sound, but I’ll stick by my conversion to the ToneDexter for ease of use. Omnidirectional mics have much reduced proximately effect compared to cardioids and therefore are less fussy about where they're positioned when inside a guitar body - if you pointed a cardioid directly at the top and it was very close (as it would have to be inside a guitar body) it would boost the low end in comparison to an omni in the same position...
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Post by PistolPete on May 24, 2022 15:47:37 GMT
It has been interesting re-reading this thread.
Since I know you're all itching for an update: After I'd fixed the jack socket and put some new strings on I was much much happier with both the plugged-in & acoustic sound of the guitar, so I decided to live with the AK15 for a bit. Truthfully, I still feel like the fully-blended tone sounds too much like a UST for my liking, and I get feedback anytime the volume wheel passes about 30-40%, but now I can hear the bass strings properly it's not annoying me enough to do anything about it
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