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Post by fatfingerjohn on Apr 10, 2023 15:23:22 GMT
This may be a regurgitation of earlier threads so apologies if it is. But, do you ever REALLY finish a song that you're learning? By 'finish' I mean so that you can play it through pretty fluently ALL the way through, all verses, choruses, bridges, intro, outro?
I find this more and more an issue as I get older, largely I think because I can't remember the lyrics any more without having them written in front of me and I'm probably too lazy to dig them out or find them on the computer or wherever.
So I tend to play the bits I know, often the first verse and chorus but never get to the point of playing it all the way through often enough to crack it.
Is it just me or are there others out there who have dozens (hundreds?) of incomplete pieces that they play?
I suppose because I rarely 'play out' these days, the incentive to really get it ALL right has diminished and it becomes a vicious circle.
FFJ
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Post by fretter on Apr 10, 2023 16:50:14 GMT
Interesting thoughts. I have been giving this quite a bit of thought lately.
If I learn a new song - or even one I kind of know a bit already - I find it very hard to 'wean' myself off having the lyrics in front of me. I learn it more quickly if I try to visualise the music and lyrics, without making reference to prompts. Easier said than done.
There is a big gulf in being able to play a song accurately with prompts, and doing it without. THere is an even bigger gulf in being able to do it without in a performing situation.
As an example, I have recently learned 'Fire Adn Rain' by James Taylor. In practice (as part of a duo - me on guitar plus singer) I have been pretty confident. We did a small performance recently and decided to give it a go. I minimised prompt sheets, for nearly all of our material, including' Fire and Raim'.
When I came to play it, I simply could not remember the very distinctive introduction - which I took a long time to learn. Could not remember as in totally forgot it. Well, on to the next song, and only my singer noticed. Even if I had the prompt sheet in front of me, it wouldn't have helpes, as I simply couldn't remember how the intro went.
There are many songs I know absolutely inside out, and can play them in any situation confidently and accurately - likewise instrumentals. I have found some songs fairly easy to learn, as they tell a story eg 'Beeswing' by Richard Thompson. Others, which don't tell a story are far more difficult eg 'Don't Think Twice'and 'Love Minus Zero' by Dylan. They don't really have a plot, as such, and I find it really easy to forget, or mix verses up.
I guess we all learn in different ways, and what works for one, may not work for others. During our recent wet, miserable winter, I have being playing / practising, shorter, but more frequent bursts. I think this has helped a little.
For me, another indicastion of how well I know something is whether I can pick it up part of the way through, rather than having to return to the start, in the very likely event of making a mistake!
Very regular and structured practice is obviously important, but unless you are performing regularly, motivation can be a issue to 'doing the hard yards' Much as I love playing, there are many other draws on my time!
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Post by Derick on Apr 11, 2023 10:48:11 GMT
The quick answer from me is, no.
Once I have convinced my self that I could play it all the way through, the novelty wears off. A bit like telling a good joke, but after you have told that joke a few times, you don't want to tell it again. The above is based on just playing and entertaining just myself, it would be different if I was gigging or performing live.
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Post by delb0y on Apr 11, 2023 10:56:48 GMT
I rarely, if ever, play something like the original (assuming it's not one of my originals) so my "knowing" a song is simply chords / lyrics / melody. The rest tends to be fluid. Some days the rest is pretty good, more often it's pretty bad - but that's the beauty of it :-) I've actually been pondering on doing a version of Street of London. Had a listen to Ralph's version and thought okay, that's nice, and then went back to my own very different take. It certainly isn't the case that I'd sit down and work out, and then play, his version (or indeed, say, Tony Rice's version - which I also like). To me, those versions have already been done, so there's little point. All that said, I don't think I ever really "finish" a song because they're different every time, but I do make sure I know the chords, melody and lyrics.
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Post by thejamsinger on Apr 11, 2023 18:19:39 GMT
To answer your question honestly then the answer is no. I have an app called lyric pad which enables me play songs right the way through. I host an open mic night and teach guitar to beginners at a guitar school. So I get asked to play a wide variety of songs, so don’t really want to spend to much time trying to learn new songs. As an example I’ve been learning 4 to 5 songs a month, from Tears in Heaven to Sultans of swing to sex on fire. I might have to stop the students picking the songs 😂😂
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Apr 11, 2023 19:51:14 GMT
To answer your question honestly then the answer is no. I have an app called lyric pad which enables me play songs right the way through. I host an open mic night and teach guitar to beginners at a guitar school. So I get asked to play a wide variety of songs, so don’t really want to spend to much time trying to learn new songs. As an example I’ve been learning 4 to 5 songs a month, from Tears in Heaven to Sultans of swing to sex on fire. I might have to stop the students picking the songs 😂😂 Hi, I use Lyric Pad as well and it certainly does allow me to carry lyrics around without huge files; so is probably the nearest I get to singing something all the way through. Also, a bit like you I run a guitar group of old folk and I suppose this the the exception to me having to 'finish' songs in that we have a 'performance' repertoire of about 50 songs. But ... very few are songs i would want to play myself either for my own solo enjoyment or if I occasioannly play out. Theye are fine in theor own way bu more the singalong variety. Its the stuff I do for myself that I don't polish enough to the end. JOhn
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Post by scorpiodog on Apr 12, 2023 14:58:02 GMT
This is a pretty interesting question, and I hadn't thought about it before. I do finish songs and when I do, I perform them. I get a gig about once a month, maybe a little more, usually at the same venue, so I need a fairly big repertoire to avoid it all getting stale.
But not all the songs I set to learn get finished, and some take a bloomin' long time. I worked out a version of "If You Go Away" that took me eight years! I am still trying to polish "High Barbary" from a John Pearse tab that I've been working on intermittently since I was 18. I'll get there one day. I'm currently trying to sort out "Sweet Dreams" by The Eurhythmics and I've been working on that for a year on and off.
Then there are the ones I learned, played out a few times, didn't play for a while and I've discovered I can't play them any more (I don't make comprehensive notes, but I should). I can usually recover those if I've recorded them at any time, but I don't always do that either.
This memory malarkey is weird beyond belief.
Great question, John.
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Post by andy3sheds on Apr 17, 2023 12:02:50 GMT
I one asked a painter friend who had been asked to display some of his paintings at the Royal Academy what makes him decide when he’s finished a painting his answer was when something more interesting turns up
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Post by NikGnashers on Apr 30, 2023 7:58:36 GMT
I only play for my own enjoyment (aside from some jam nights and open mic stuff). I try to learn pieces so that I can play them to a level I am happy with myself, but they are never 'finished', because when I watch other players on YouTube or whatever, they usually play a more complicated or intricate version with extra notes etc. For example, it has taken me about 3 years to play Jansch's version of Lady Nothing, but I always preferred Renbourn's version, so I have recently learned the 'intro' section from Renbourn and I'm adding to the main part to replicate more of Renbourn's style. There doesn't seem to be any TAB for the intro, or even guides on how to play it, so I have simply repeatedly watched Gonbe on YouTube at 1/4 speed to work out what his fingers are doing !
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Post by curmudgeon on Apr 30, 2023 13:00:26 GMT
At 75, I've given up pretending that I can rememberlyrics, even for songs that I've been doing since the last century! Being so ancient, I still use cheatsheets on a4 sheets of paper in a ring binder , but I have it on a music stand at "trouser" height and almost horizontal, to minimise it blocking the audience's full view of my youthful applecheeked face, pumped bodyform and of course my guitar.
Most of my songs are covers, but I make my own arrangements and not all my breaks are the same, at my age, my fingers arrange the solos not my addled brain.
If I can't find a suitable intro, start, middle, solo break, finish and outro, it is filed away.
Most of my newer material comes from my zoom clients, although I maintain that I teach peole rather than songs, many of my students ask me to help them make cover siongs their own, and sometimes, I use them myself.
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