joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 5, 2023 9:50:48 GMT
I’ve been using a tuner app on my iphone for several years now and it works fine, however a friend raves about the accuracy of strobe tuners. I considered buying a strobe headstock tuner but realised that Peterson also have an app, iStrobeSoft, so I decided to give that a try. However I am very disappointed and confused with the results. So I did some testing.
If I tune a guitar to standard tuning using a headstock tuner (planetwaves micro) and then check on the old iphone app, the guitar is in tune and it plays in tune. If I then check the tuning on the iStrobesoft app it is quite significantly out; E +12, A +1, D -8, G -15, B +12, E +16. If I retune to this tuning, the guitar sounds terrible, clearly out of tune and if I then back check against the other iphone app the results are confirmed ie reversed, eg -12, -1, +8, +15, -12, -16. Ive tried the same experiment on two guitars (Huss and Dalton model O and Brook Creedy).
Im pretty sure that I know how to use the strobe tuner and I even watched a couple of youtube videos to make sure. It’s not a big deal, I’m back to using my original tuner, but I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this or if anyone can advise.
thanks
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Post by martinrowe on Aug 5, 2023 11:43:48 GMT
Yes joncc I use it for the mandolin. I have the 'sweetened' tuning option which allows for 'compensation', so perhaps that's a bit different. I think it has always been all right.
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 5, 2023 14:49:41 GMT
Yeah, I didn’t get the sweeteners, didn’t want to invest more money, until I understand what I’m doing wrong.
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 5, 2023 15:48:25 GMT
Oh dear…this is embarrassing. I’ve discovered my mistake. I had inadvertently set the tuner to C temperament tuning. I have now removed this setting and the tuner is working well and accurately. Please forgive my ignorance.
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Post by martinrowe on Aug 5, 2023 16:31:05 GMT
Just out of interest, how does it compare now with the headstock tuner, or/and, can you tell any difference?
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 5, 2023 17:07:28 GMT
In practice I can’t tell the difference. The strobe tuner clearly has the potential to be very accurate but in my limited experience so far its difficult to get the guitar tuned exactly to pitch because the note fluctuates from the initial attack through the note decay. It doesn’t sit just there on 0.00. I always end up fine tuning through adjacent strings and harmonics anyway. But, as I’ve already demonstrated, as regards this tuner, I have a lot to learn. And it’s also worth saying that, as yet, I haven’t downloaded the sweetener.
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Post by martinrowe on Aug 6, 2023 7:19:37 GMT
You may already be aware of this, it relates to strobe tuners - and it is James Taylor. James Taylor on tuningI did read that if you press too hard or not just behind the fret wire then you put an instrument a little out of tune anyway - ah well, the road goes every onward
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 7, 2023 8:00:24 GMT
Thankyou, I’ve not seen this before and it is very interesting. I’m guessing that this or something similar will be the sweetener for 6 string capoed guitar on the Peterson app. I will definitely give it a try.
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 7, 2023 8:00:44 GMT
Thankyou, I’ve not seen this before and it is very interesting. I’m guessing that this or something similar will be the sweetener for 6 string capoed guitar on the Peterson app. I will definitely give it a try.
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Post by forestdweller on Aug 7, 2023 8:23:28 GMT
In practice I can’t tell the difference. The strobe tuner clearly has the potential to be very accurate but in my limited experience so far its difficult to get the guitar tuned exactly to pitch because the note fluctuates from the initial attack through the note decay. It doesn’t sit just there on 0.00. I always end up fine tuning through adjacent strings and harmonics anyway. But, as I’ve already demonstrated, as regards this tuner, I have a lot to learn. And it’s also worth saying that, as yet, I haven’t downloaded the sweetener. Another thing to consider with these highly accurate tuners is the machine heads. In my opinion strobe tuners are only as good as the ability to fine tune the string anyway, and unfortunately the waverlies on my H&D are a bit hit and miss I find. If I had the money I would replace them with the 21:1 version, but as it is I am constantly turning the tuner and finding it quickly goes past the in tune note due to the broad nature of the peg turn. Robbie
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 7, 2023 8:27:57 GMT
This posh tuning stuff is all very well, certainly interesting, but just try playing guitar with a piano, or an accordion, or any kind of pipes or fixed pitch instrument. The only "tuners" (what a misnomer that is) that are any use then will be your ears. Trouble is, most of us find that these function less well with advancing age... Keith
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 7, 2023 8:41:32 GMT
forestdweller - spot on Robbie - whatever sort of "tuner" you use, it has it's own particular peculiarities that need to be discovered and mastered, as do machine heads - good point. I'm happy with almost any sort of machine head once I've got used to them. Don't mind what ratio - you can change the effective "ratio" depending on where you apply turning force to the button (hence larger, flatter buttons work best for me) - doesn't actually change the ratio of course, but alters the distance your fingers move to achieve the same effect. And any mechanical "slop" in tuners is eliminated if you always tune up to the required note, never down. If the produced note is too high, go well below the target note and then tune up to it. I'm sure that's egg sucking to most of us grandmas anyway though, as we mostly grew up using rubbish guitars with even rubbisher (is that a word?) machine heads! Keith
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,325
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Post by colins on Aug 7, 2023 14:42:52 GMT
The only problem with players setting up their tuning to within a cent or two with whatever tuning gizmo they choose is that then they start to play it. As soon as they start fretting the strings the tuning goes to pot. As a builder you can get the frets perfectly positioned, the intonation set to dead on, and then the player's variable fretting angle and finger pressure buggers the whole thing up. My favourite machine heads when I was playing were lute pegs, 1:1 ratio, with 19 strings to tune you soon got used to the idea of 'close enough' and got on with playing, especially when part of a consort, try getting four lutes all perfectly in tune with each other, you soon realise that near enough is fine. I could rant on about the interminable tuning sessions of a lot of today's players, but for my own sanity I won't. Colin
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joncc
Strummer
Northworthy Elastone Special, Brook Creedy, Brook Little Silver (terz), Huss and Dalton Model O
Posts: 17
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Post by joncc on Aug 7, 2023 21:20:24 GMT
I agree about the Waverlys, Robbie, I have them on my Brook Creedy and my H&D and they are terrible, stiff and sticky and wobbly. I have Schertlers on my Little Silver and they are lovely, smooth and very accurate.
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Post by NikGnashers on Aug 9, 2023 15:38:05 GMT
I realise acoustic guitars (and other acoustic string instruments) are not electronic, but when I attended college to complete an advanced national diploma in music technology, I did a lot of experimentation with analogue synthesizers. When you have two or even three oscillators playing exactly the same note, it sounds pretty thin, but by using a 'detune' function on two of the oscillators in relation to the first, and pitching both down slightly by differing amounts, the sound starts to really thicken and actually sound much MUCH nicer. I would imagine the very same happens to acoustic instruments and their tunings, when two or three (or more) play together.
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