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Post by forestdweller on Aug 10, 2023 8:46:24 GMT
I was supposed to have a pickup fitted to the Brook I am borrowing, but have had to postpone. For a start, pickups are incredibly expensive, and although I have a very nice pickup in my Huss & Dalton (a k & K) it still doesn't sound like my guitar. So, the obvious thing to think is, for the same price as a pickup (say about £250) I could get a very decent condensor microphone. But....what are the disadvantages with this? Bear in mind I wont be playing massive venues. I just want my two beautiful sounding guitars to sound really nice live.
If you use a mic, what are you using and what are you putting it through?
Thanks, Robbie
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Aug 10, 2023 9:06:44 GMT
I use a K&K pure mini (or a K&K copy - a JJB prestige 330) pickup. I use a Redeye preamp if I'm not using my AER amp, if I'm using the AER then the "colour" button gives a very natural sound. I've heard the K&K preamps are good but I've never used one.
I have used a mic in the past but it was prone to feedback and picking up surrounding noise. I rarely have a soundman to sort that stuff out so I make it as easy on myself as possible. I play in pubs, folk clubs, and busk. A mic for me isn't worth the hassle. If you're playing solo on a stage in a quiet venue or have a soundman, a mic may be a great choice!
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Post by scorpiodog on Aug 10, 2023 9:09:03 GMT
I have done, Robbie. But only once and it was done by the sound engineer at the venue. It was an SM57 going through the stage pa. But I'm not as exacting about my guitar sound as you are, nor do I like to sit still when performing. So on the one hand it sounded OK to me (and I do have a video where it also sounds OK to me) but it probably wouldn't suit you. I was so irritated by having to sit still that I had a pickup installed in the guitar the following week.
Here's the vid:
The quality of the filming is somewhat lacking, but, obviously, I wasn't behind the camera. There was no tripod. It was a good camera, not a phone.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 10, 2023 9:44:54 GMT
I did on a few occasions use one small diameter condenser microphone for voice and guitar. Sitting down obvs and with the mic roughly halfway vertically between guitar and gob - plugged into AER a couple of feet in front of me, low down, tilted up. The sound I could hear was obviously not the best, but the sound out front was pretty good. The venue was a small village hall with a quiet "listening" audience. No feedback problems. I've not done it for ages because, as Paul said, there's little scope for moving much, if at all. Plus there was no chance of tweaking the AER as it was too far away to reach.
For just guitar I've never gone with just a mic - much simpler and with fewer portential problems just to plug in. I know that hearing your own guitar sounding great can inspire better performances, but the punters aren't usually discerning enough to tell the difference between an OK guitar sound, a good guitar sound and an excellent guitar sound. Although not an excuse for accepting bad sound, a performance is about what the audience hears, not an excuse for the performer to bask in how great the sound is - although that can be nice!
Miked performances by Blugrass bands in carefully controlled conditions can be a delight - all that choreography to keep whichever is the prominent instrument at the time in "pole position" - I always worry about collisions though!
In short, Robbie - you might well get away with using a condenser mic in the right conditions. Even if you plan to talk to the the audience you'd still likely get away with the one microphone as you play seated. Let us know what you decide!
Keith
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Post by Matt Milton on Aug 10, 2023 10:52:38 GMT
I very rarely play amplified at all - mostly play at folk club singarounds. But on the rare occasions I do play a gig it's usually at a folk club or acoustic night where people are going to be sitting attentively. So I trust the sound engineer to mic me up - usually with an SM57 but I've been pleasantly surprised at some folk clubs where they have had a condenser. I don't play rowdy pub gigs and don't really need to, so I don't need a pickup.
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Post by forestdweller on Aug 10, 2023 14:40:41 GMT
Ok, not very promising then. Might have to bite the bullet and get the James May Ultratonic that has been recommended. Keith- me talk to the audience?
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Post by delb0y on Aug 10, 2023 15:47:13 GMT
I recently bought an SM57 to mic up the gypsy jazzer - although we're yet to gig this little GJ duo, a few open mics aside. For all my other acoustic gigs I've always used a guitar with a built in pick-up, and have often had compliments on the tone / sound. I think, in a live situation, the benefits of a built-in pick-up outweigh the disadvantage. Also, I stand up and tend to to move a fair bit.
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juliant
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Post by juliant on Aug 12, 2023 8:29:44 GMT
I use a K&K pure mini (or a K&K copy - a JJB prestige 330) pickup. I use a Redeye preamp if I'm not using my AER amp, if I'm using the AER then the "colour" button gives a very natural sound. I've heard the K&K preamps are good but I've never used one. I have used a mic in the past but it was prone to feedback and picking up surrounding noise. I rarely have a soundman to sort that stuff out so I make it as easy on myself as possible. I play in pubs, folk clubs, and busk. A mic for me isn't worth the hassle. If you're playing solo on a stage in a quiet venue or have a soundman, a mic may be a great choice! How do you like the Redeye? Daft question in a way because you're using it so it must work for you. I've got a K&K preamp with my Trinity system but I'm looking for something a bit more flexible, as it only lets you vary the volume and I'd like more control over the sound. Thing is, I need a stereo preamp and that cuts the choices down a bit (especially as I don't have wads of cash to spare on what is just a hobby) but they do one that looks interesting.
(And on the main topic of the thread, if I can't plug in then I'll use a mic, and I find that's a whole different game: keeping still so you're not varying the sound when you don't want to, but also being able to move around when you do. Being able to fade out at the end of a song by moving back from the mic is useful. As for which mics to use, my tin ears don't let me distinguish between the various mics terribly well, but the good old SM5* mics are always a good bet, and pretty well indestructible)
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Aug 12, 2023 9:43:04 GMT
How do you like the Redeye? I like it a lot, it's simple to use and to my ears does improve the sound of passive piezo pickups quite a bit. There aren't a lot of adjustment controls on mine - just a knob to boost or reduce treble and a volume boost. I've never used a proper K&K preamp so can't give any opinion on how they compare.
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Post by mandovark on Aug 12, 2023 14:47:13 GMT
I've used a mic in a couple of different settings. When I was accompanying a cello player with an audience listening quietly, it worked well (I don't know what kind of mic that one was). It was less successful when I tried it with a few other musicians and an audience that was singing along. It's definitely better suited to situations where you're not competing with other instruments or much background noise. But I also agree with a few others that there's a big difference between sitting and standing. I mostly play standing and I like to be able to move around a bit, but even if you're trying to stand still it's surprisingly hard to keep the guitar position consistent. I think if I was a sound engineer in that situation I'd want to nail the guitarist's shoes to the floor...
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futch
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Post by futch on Aug 16, 2023 18:38:06 GMT
I’ve used just an sm57 or similar on my guitar playing rhythm with a swing trio for gigs and open mics. Works ok if the audience isn’t too rowdy. More natural sound for my style of playing.
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Post by fred7 on Aug 16, 2023 20:21:10 GMT
I've done it twice. First time was perfect and no problems at all. Second time was a nightmare with feedback - which wasn't helped by the rubbish nut on the venue's mic boom that meant the mic kept sinking down out of position.
Wouldn't want to do it again.
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Post by shufflebeat on Sept 4, 2023 21:53:10 GMT
...the rubbish nut on the venue's mic... Hey, sound engineers have feelings too.
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