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Post by forestdweller on Nov 19, 2023 11:38:25 GMT
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,535
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Nov 19, 2023 13:20:20 GMT
Tom Sands did a decent job of it for ianlp59 😀
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,320
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Post by colins on Nov 19, 2023 15:57:24 GMT
They keep feeding it out in small numbers, at increasing prices. I did make a guitar from it a number of years ago when it was at a reasonable price, I think about $3500 a set for the top grade. The set belonged to the customer so I had nothing invested in it, and I insisted that the customer took responsibility for it. The back is not a problem but bending the sides is where all of the risk is, I did use Supersoft veneer spray on it to relax the fibres prior to bending, and it bent like a dream. I also used a brand new router bit when cutting the binding channels, and precut the sides with a gramil to limit the possibility of tear out when routing as the grain of the quilting can run in multiple directions. It was paired with a superb LS Redwood top from Hank Mauel. So ended up with both the premium B&S set and top.
Now working on a highly figured Ziricote B&S is where the real challenge comes, if not the financial risk.
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Post by marcus on Nov 19, 2023 23:24:54 GMT
They keep feeding it out in small numbers, at increasing prices. I did make a guitar from it a number of years ago when it was at a reasonable price, I think about $3500 a set for the top grade. The set belonged to the customer so I had nothing invested in it, and I insisted that the customer took responsibility for it. The back is not a problem but bending the sides is where all of the risk is, I did use Supersoft veneer spray on it to relax the fibres prior to bending, and it bent like a dream. I also used a brand new router bit when cutting the binding channels, and precut the sides with a gramil to limit the possibility of tear out when routing as the grain of the quilting can run in multiple directions. It was paired with a superb LS Redwood top from Hank Mauel. So ended up with both the premium B&S set and top. Now working on a highly figured Ziricote B&S is where the real challenge comes, if not the financial risk. Hi Colin, Can I ask whether you thought it was worth using the tree as opposed to normal mahogany? Do you think it made any difference to the sound or is it more about the spectacular looks? All the best, marcus
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,320
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Post by colins on Nov 20, 2023 15:51:39 GMT
They keep feeding it out in small numbers, at increasing prices. I did make a guitar from it a number of years ago when it was at a reasonable price, I think about $3500 a set for the top grade. The set belonged to the customer so I had nothing invested in it, and I insisted that the customer took responsibility for it. The back is not a problem but bending the sides is where all of the risk is, I did use Supersoft veneer spray on it to relax the fibres prior to bending, and it bent like a dream. I also used a brand new router bit when cutting the binding channels, and precut the sides with a gramil to limit the possibility of tear out when routing as the grain of the quilting can run in multiple directions. It was paired with a superb LS Redwood top from Hank Mauel. So ended up with both the premium B&S set and top. Now working on a highly figured Ziricote B&S is where the real challenge comes, if not the financial risk. Hi Colin, Can I ask whether you thought it was worth using the tree as opposed to normal mahogany? Do you think it made any difference to the sound or is it more about the spectacular looks? All the best, marcus
Without doubt it is a stunning tonewood both visually and tonally, but of course like any other tonewood it is down to the maker to bring out it's best. Both of the guitars I have heard using this wood sound superb, (modestly) I'd say that the one I built was the best sounding 'Honduran' mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) guitar that I have made, but it did have an LS redwood top and as we know the top is the major contributor to tone. Ian's Tom Sands' guitar, which I have heard at a number of the HB get togethers, is also a great sounding guitar in his hands. But yes part of the attraction of the Tree is it's wonderful looks. Tone is a very personal thing, my favourite B&S wood for a steel string guitar is still Cuban Mahogany (Swietenia Mahogani), which to me gives the perfect blend of mahogany's separation and rosewood's resonance. I think that the Tree is just a little more leaning towards rosewood's sound. The very best straight grain BRW from re-cycled furniture is unbeatable for classical guitars, but for steel string there are many of the tropical hardwoods that are it's equal. Honduran Rosewood, Ziricote and Cambodian Beng are three, among many, that come to mind. But I still prefer Cuban mahogany for a steel string. Just my opinion of course.
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Post by marcus on Nov 21, 2023 0:47:06 GMT
Hi Colin, Can I ask whether you thought it was worth using the tree as opposed to normal mahogany? Do you think it made any difference to the sound or is it more about the spectacular looks? All the best, marcus
Without doubt it is a stunning tonewood both visually and tonally, but of course like any other tonewood it is down to the maker to bring out it's best. Both of the guitars I have heard using this wood sound superb, (modestly) I'd say that the one I built was the best sounding 'Honduran' mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) guitar that I have made, but it did have an LS redwood top and as we know the top is the major contributor to tone. Ian's Tom Sands' guitar, which I have heard at a number of the HB get togethers, is also a great sounding guitar in his hands. But yes part of the attraction of the Tree is it's wonderful looks. Tone is a very personal thing, my favourite B&S wood for a steel string guitar is still Cuban Mahogany (Swietenia Mahogani), which to me gives the perfect blend of mahogany's separation and rosewood's resonance. I think that the Tree is just a little more leaning towards rosewood's sound. The very best straight grain BRW from re-cycled furniture is unbeatable for classical guitars, but for steel string there are many of the tropical hardwoods that are it's equal. Honduran Rosewood, Ziricote and Cambodian Beng are three, among many, that come to mind. But I still prefer Cuban mahogany for a steel string. Just my opinion of course.
Hi Colin,
Thanks very much for your detailed and informative reply. It’s interesting that you found the Tree to be unique/special compared to other Honduran mahogany guitars you built. Just as interesting that you still prefer building with Cuban mahogany. Appreciate that everyone’s opinion regarding tone is unique but I appreciate hearing your thoughts on tone as a guitar maker with experience of using the Tree vs non-Tree.
Funny that you should mention Honduran rosewood. The nicest sounding guitar for my ears that I ever got to own/play was a Spruce/Honduran rosewood 00 built by Bruce Sexauer in the States. I should not have let that one go…
Thanks again, marcus
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Post by ianlp59 on Nov 21, 2023 9:44:22 GMT
I'll add my two pennies worth here. It should be borne in mind that Tom Sands is very familiar with my playing style and built my "The Tree" guitar with that in mind. I am, obviously, extremely happy with the result.
Cheers,
Ian
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Post by newdave on Nov 21, 2023 21:26:29 GMT
colinsWhat do you think of the Blackwoods? I've heard a couple of guitars made with African Blackwood and three or four with Tasmanian Blackwood and I've really like all of them. I will always feel a stirring in my nethers for a Jacaranda or rosewood Yamaha but these blackwood guitars, although they seem to have a bit more treble in them, appeal to my ears almost as much. I've found one that I'm strongly considering buying - mind you I'll probably have to keep it in the bathroom or the cupboard under the kitchen sink because I'm getting a bit tight for space. I do like a bit of macassar ebony as well but I think I might be swayed as much by looks as by tone. They can have some truly exceptional figuring, even orange looking marks along with the black.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
Posts: 2,992
My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"72dd98"}
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Post by minorkey on Nov 22, 2023 23:07:55 GMT
The tree??
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Post by ianlp59 on Nov 23, 2023 9:18:40 GMT
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 27, 2023 16:09:21 GMT
They keep feeding it out in small numbers, at increasing prices. I did make a guitar from it a number of years ago when it was at a reasonable price, I think about $3500 a set for the top grade. The set belonged to the customer so I had nothing invested in it, and I insisted that the customer took responsibility for it. The back is not a problem but bending the sides is where all of the risk is, I did use Supersoft veneer spray on it to relax the fibres prior to bending, and it bent like a dream. I also used a brand new router bit when cutting the binding channels, and precut the sides with a gramil to limit the possibility of tear out when routing as the grain of the quilting can run in multiple directions. It was paired with a superb LS Redwood top from Hank Mauel. So ended up with both the premium B&S set and top. Now working on a highly figured Ziricote B&S is where the real challenge comes, if not the financial risk.
Are you making guitars again? If so, that's great news.
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Post by earwighoney on Nov 27, 2023 16:18:47 GMT
Hi Colin, Can I ask whether you thought it was worth using the tree as opposed to normal mahogany? Do you think it made any difference to the sound or is it more about the spectacular looks? All the best, marcus
Without doubt it is a stunning tonewood both visually and tonally, but of course like any other tonewood it is down to the maker to bring out it's best. Both of the guitars I have heard using this wood sound superb, (modestly) I'd say that the one I built was the best sounding 'Honduran' mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) guitar that I have made, but it did have an LS redwood top and as we know the top is the major contributor to tone. But I still prefer Cuban mahogany for a steel string. Just my opinion of course.
Great to see a call for Cuban Mahogany mentioned here. It seems to be near enough extinct where it was originally found, but oddly enough I found a place where it's near enough everywhere. In the 5-10 minute walk from my aunt's house to my cousin's house there was enough CM trees to last acoustic guitar makers in the UK for a decade or so. It's grown there like London Plane trees here, people plant them in front of their houses for shade and when the trees are mature they are used for furniture, like making beds. It's a great shame none of this wonderful timber will see the light of day for making guitars.
If it's of any interest to anyone (maybe to the tonewood geeks here like myself), on the other side of my cousin's house at the edge of some kind of private property (I think there was some kind of telecommunications company?) there were a few of huge Indian Rosewood trees. I saw a few of those trees around the place, planted here and there as ornamental trees.
Sorry for going off topic.
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Post by K Tresp on Nov 27, 2023 22:28:13 GMT
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