minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Mar 3, 2024 16:00:48 GMT
While spruce cedar and mahogany are the usual tonewood choice for tops, I wonder what other woods are used. Has anyone used say pine, oak or birch as a tonewood? Would willow or poplar work? Cherry or apple? I like the idea of guitars made with wood that we see all around us. What are the challenges involved in using such woods?
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 3, 2024 17:08:19 GMT
You might find this of interest, Larry - tonewooddatasource.weebly.com/species-list.htmlmany different woods have been used over the years and in different places - mostly because of local availability until relatively recently. IMH(and uninformed)O, a decent builder can make a decent instrument out of almost any wood. "Tonewood" as a thing, doesn't really exist, all wood will give some sort of tone when made up into an instrument. Whether it is pleasing or not is another matter. My Fylde Falstaff has what Rog reckons is a top he made from Hemlock (Tsuga - nothing to do with Hemlock (Conium) the poisonous herbaceous plant) at a time when the more usual choices were not readily available. Works for me. Keith
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Post by earwighoney on Mar 3, 2024 17:38:07 GMT
While spruce cedar and mahogany are the usual tonewood choice for tops, I wonder what other woods are used. Has anyone used say pine, oak or birch as a tonewood? Would willow or poplar work? Cherry or apple? I like the idea of guitars made with wood that we see all around us. What are the challenges involved in using such woods?
I've seen oak, cherry, apple used for back and sides. Birch I think has been used for soundboards and backs. Poplar was used by Gibson in the war for acoustic necks. Pine is used quite a bit of electric guitar bodies, eg Fano. Poplar was used for a few budget Fenders back in the 50's/60's, but it's kind of fell out of fashion now.
Alex Kirtley of this forum used poplar for back and sides, cherry for the neck for his Leadbelly 12 which you can see in the classifieds section.
I'm sure other woods could be used for soundboards, but generally spruce and cedar are reasonably available to American/European guitar makers so there wasn't much need to experiment. Australian guitar makers do not have access to cheaper cedar/spruce so they use some of their domestic timbers for soundboards to great impact. IMO Tasmanian Blackwood is equal or greater than some of it's alternatives eg koa.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
Too many instruments, too little time
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My main instrument is: hurting my fingers!
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Post by minorkey on Mar 3, 2024 18:10:24 GMT
And of course my Fender Dread has a Basswood top, which we know as Lime (Tilia)
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Post by malcolm on Mar 4, 2024 12:53:55 GMT
While spruce cedar and mahogany are the usual tonewood choice for tops, I wonder what other woods are used. Has anyone used say pine, oak or birch as a tonewood? Would willow or poplar work? Cherry or apple? I like the idea of guitars made with wood that we see all around us. What are the challenges involved in using such woods?
I've seen oak, cherry, apple used for back and sides. Birch I think has been used for soundboards and backs. Poplar was used by Gibson in the war for acoustic necks. Pine is used quite a bit of electric guitar bodies, eg Fano. Poplar was used for a few budget Fenders back in the 50's/60's, but it's kind of fell out of fashion now.
Alex Kirtley of this forum used poplar for back and sides, cherry for the neck for his Leadbelly 12 which you can see in the classifieds section.
I'm sure other woods could be used for soundboards, but generally spruce and cedar are reasonably available to American/European guitar makers so there wasn't much need to experiment. Australian guitar makers do not have access to cheaper cedar/spruce so they use some of their domestic timbers for soundboards to great impact. IMO Tasmanian Blackwood is equal or greater than some of it's alternatives eg koa.
I too have a 1980 Falstaff which Roger reckons has a hemlock top. I also have an all koa guitar and an all mahogany one and in a blind test I'm sure most people couldn't tell which was which.
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minorkey
C.O.G.
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Post by minorkey on Mar 4, 2024 14:47:08 GMT
I guess one wood which would be rarely used is Hornbeam. Said to blunt many a woodworker's tools
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colins
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Post by colins on Mar 4, 2024 16:20:10 GMT
Of course you can make a guitar from any wood that you like, the question is will it sound any good. Back and sides are not so critical in their characteristics wood all the way from BRW and 50K year old Ancient Kauri to Cypress and everything in between has and can be used, the different woods will to a marginal extent influence the tone of the guitar. Builders talk about the Rosewood end of the continuum which can add a resonance to the sound but when overdriven can become muddy, but can add a more resonant sustain to classical guitars, to the Mahogany/Walnut end which generally will add less sustain but improved separation and probably suit the majority of finger players of steel strings.
The top wood is a different matter however, it has very specific functions which need certain characteristics in the wood to perform well, for this you need a strong, light, low density wood. For the wood to move and generate sound waves in a predictable way, under what is a low energy system, the grain should be straight and ideally perfectly quartersawn with densities in the 300-500kg/m3, a Q value of less than 150 (it's damping rate), and an MOE Stiffness in a narrow range according to density of the board. Generally the required characteristics will be better found in the softwoods, the spruces, cedars, redwoods and their like, though some mahoganies can just about creep in at the margin. There are a considerable number of species available that will to a greater of lesser extent serve the purpose. However, critical to the commercial use of these woods for instruments is the plentiful supply of timber of consistent quality. In Europe this has mainly been European or Norway Spruce (Picea abies) and the Caucasian Spruce (Picea orientalis). In China various Pine varieties and Tsugas etc, were used. When North America opened up, we then had a plentiful supply of the various other Spruces, Cedars and Redwoods to expand our choice. Lesser available woods will serve well, but are only really of interest to the boutique guitar maker. One wood that can work well as a top wood, indeed as B&S and neck as well is Monterey Cypress (Hesperocyparis macrocarpa) I have built several guitars using this as a top, which fitted tonally between the spruces and mahogany, I've also built tops with Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii) and Weston Hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla).
Another wood that makes excellent guitar tops is the Port Orford Cedar or Lawson's Cypress, (Chamaecyparis lawsoniana) a common hedging and specimen evergreen in garden cultivation in the UK. Many of you will remember the tree that Dave had cut down in his front garden, which we processed into top wood, it produced some of the best soundboards that either of us have used, one featured on my 'All English' guitar that I raffled at HB6 which is now in the possession of David Hutton.
So provided a wood can fit into the parameters for grain, density, stiffness and damping that make a good soundboard then it should work, will it work better than the commonly used woods, well....
Colin
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minorkey
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Post by minorkey on Mar 4, 2024 16:29:24 GMT
Wow lot of useful stuff there! And to think my fender is made of basswood. Yet it sounds great (my brother couldn't stop playing it!)
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