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Post by creamburmese on Jul 15, 2015 15:13:11 GMT
I have been having a crisis of confidence with guitar playing for a while now- why am I not improving despite working on it? -why do I still fall apart when I play in front of someone (especially my guitar teacher)? Maybe I am just not cut out for this/too old/ not musical enough/ pick your poison.... Mostly I can put these thoughts aside and just enjoy the process of learning melodies and making music, however clunky, but those doubts are there nonetheless. I've even thought of dumping my wonderful guitar teacher just so I dont have to appear so inadequate in front of this consummate professional. OK so I probably need a therapist to deal with the guitar lessons . Anyway to get to the point - about a year ago I was given " Spanish Romance" to learn - I bet every kid beginning guitar learns to play it, but yours truly had to give up on it. No way I was going to make those stretches with my age and length-disadvantaged fingers. But recently I've been going through my little book with all the pieces I've worked on to "retrieve" the pieces I could once play but seem to have forgotten or never quite finished. And I came across Spanish Romance in its pristine state, unsullied by all the instructions that usually get written all over my music. Prior to tearing it out of the book to make room for something I could actually hope to play, I thought I'd remind myself why I was junking it, and lo and behold (drum roll) now I can reach.... despite the fact that so far as I can tell my fingers aren't any longer than they were before... so progress has in fact been made despite it not being obvious to me (or most likely my guitar teacher!!!) Encouragement from a totally unexpected source!
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,348
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Post by Riverman on Jul 15, 2015 15:15:26 GMT
Bravo!
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Jul 15, 2015 17:51:25 GMT
The trouble with progress is that, after the occasional burst, it is very gradual. But, as you have found, if you return to something you couldn't manage a couple of years ago you often find you can now do it. That's the real measure of progress as its so hard to notice the gradual stuff. (It's a bit like getting old; until you meet someone who hasn't seen you for 20 years and he/she stifles a gasp at the mirage in front of them!) Give yourself huge pats on the back for recognising this! Now, regarding progress of playing in front of others, that's a different story. 3 chords is a struggle at times in front of anyone except my dog ....
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Post by Mike Floorstand on Jul 15, 2015 21:46:45 GMT
Sounds like you had a breakthrough - and an epiphany? Just keep picking up the guitar and playing something, and improvement will occur - maybe not in areas that you expected or were aiming for, but will happen somewhere, sooner or later...
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Post by creamburmese on Jul 16, 2015 15:10:41 GMT
Breakthroughs not evident here - but I suppose if progress is too gradual then it's like watching children grow- you don't see them growing until you look at photos from last year or try to fit them in last winter's wellie boots! Currently trying to "learn' the fretboard (this is about the 6th time) - not so much being able to figure out where the notes are but being able to "see" the fretboard in my mind and find a note without thinking about it first. I have this nasty sinking feeling that it's the kind of thing that gets better with sight reading (another skill that I lack and which I'd rather go to the dentist than practice) (sorry Keith).
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 16, 2015 19:02:06 GMT
I remember sight reading as being a hard task master back in my days of (trying to) play classical. I'm not sure how much it helped me. I certainly remember how difficult it was to play by feel and intuition when I switched genre after all those years.
You really shouldn't despair ever Julie - progress can seem slow and it often is truth be told. But even if progress stalls at some point you've already made it along the road a lot further than most who try it.
Those classical lessons I took were very much orientated towards targets - the goal was always finishing or achieving the next step - it was never about enjoying where I was at that moment.
As a wonderful guitar teacher, bluesman Michael "Hawkeye" Herman has said enjoy the journey, that's what it's about - not the destination.
Maybe I've just got old and lazy - but I get joy from just sitting with my guitar and playing 3 or 4 notes in an interesting chord or sequence and listening to the notes interact, rise and slowly fade. Beautiful sounds from a wonderful instrument and such a contrast to so many aspects of the ugliness in modern life.
Mark
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brianr2
C.O.G.
Posts: 3,054
My main instrument is: Brook Lyn guitar
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Post by brianr2 on Jul 17, 2015 7:25:09 GMT
vikingblues, I could not agree more. Musical hedonism rules! Brian
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Post by creamburmese on Jul 17, 2015 14:50:16 GMT
Those classical lessons I took were very much orientated towards targets - the goal was always finishing or achieving the next step - it was never about enjoying where I was at that moment. As a wonderful guitar teacher, bluesman Michael "Hawkeye" Herman has said enjoy the journey, that's what it's about - not the destination. Mark I can relate to this - there are just so many steps to getting even a basic competence in classical guitar, but so long as I get to play more interesting things or make more beautiful music I'm good with it. It's mostly me doing the pushing - my guitar teacher seems to be pretty laid back with me - though I'm aware he can be a hard taskmaster with his university students - must be tuned in to issues with adult hobby learners - without parents pushing us and with an attitude that if it isn't interesting we're not interested, I think we make a challenging group of students! I just have to work more on being in the moment and enjoying the journey .... (I wonder if there is an exercise for that? ) How long did you take classical lessons Mark? I just realized I've been taking them for 2 years now (if you count the group lessons at the beginning). I initially took classical to get a good grounding in basics. You can either say now that I'm hooked on the classical guitar, or that it might take the rest of my playing life to get a good grounding
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Post by vikingblues on Jul 17, 2015 19:42:07 GMT
Those classical lessons I took were very much orientated towards targets - the goal was always finishing or achieving the next step - it was never about enjoying where I was at that moment. As a wonderful guitar teacher, bluesman Michael "Hawkeye" Herman has said enjoy the journey, that's what it's about - not the destination. Mark I can relate to this - there are just so many steps to getting even a basic competence in classical guitar, but so long as I get to play more interesting things or make more beautiful music I'm good with it. It's mostly me doing the pushing - my guitar teacher seems to be pretty laid back with me - though I'm aware he can be a hard taskmaster with his university students - must be tuned in to issues with adult hobby learners - without parents pushing us and with an attitude that if it isn't interesting we're not interested, I think we make a challenging group of students! I just have to work more on being in the moment and enjoying the journey .... (I wonder if there is an exercise for that? ) How long did you take classical lessons Mark? I just realized I've been taking them for 2 years now (if you count the group lessons at the beginning). I initially took classical to get a good grounding in basics. You can either say now that I'm hooked on the classical guitar, or that it might take the rest of my playing life to get a good grounding It's getting more and more difficult to remember what I did and when especially when it must be over 15 years ago! But I think I must have taken lessons for at least 3-4 years, while fending off suggestions from my teacher about taking exams. I had been playing that type of music on and off for a good many years so I wasn't starting at the beginning. But as the lessons got more demanding and the stretches required got more gargantuan they got less fun and my left hand couldn't take the strain any more and RSI kicked in. I had to take a break and somehow the impetus to go back never arrived. I dabbled around trying to make up my own music around 1999-2000 with a cheap Yamaha Pacifica, a Zoom multi fx with drum machine built in, and a 4 track cassette player, but really didn't know what I was doing and it all fizzled out. I don't think my classical lessons helped me too much there. I do have some recordings still from then, which are a useful reminder of how bad things were once, and I couldn't play lead to save my life. My wife persuaded me to give blues a try and shortly after that in 2009 I joined the JamPlay website for on line lessons and also joined a blues forum late that year. Things then started to work out again with me and a guitar. The Michael "Hawkeye" Herman I referred to in my earlier post was one of teh many teachers on Jamplay - he has a contagious enthusiasm and a joy in music making I couldn't help but get swept up in it. Anything I played after doing one of his lessons was better than usual even if it had nothing to do with the lesson and was another genre. I am in debt to him for showing me by example how to enjoy music. Then I encountered another teacher there, David Wallimann, who unlocked the magic of playing modes without needing theory. Finally a CD course in intervallic ear training by Rob Chapman got me listening in the right way and being able to play what was in my head for the first time. I love where I have got to regardless of my lack of finesse and certain skills and despite my lack of desire to perform - I do feel quite self contained and I am as happy if not happier just playing as the mood takes me with no reference to songs or books or theory. It does wonderful things to my mental well being and helps negate the effects of 5 x 9 hours of weekdays. But I really owe so much to those 3 teachers and to the internet for unlocking so much information and help that wasn't available when I was young. Help - I'm in danger of sounding very and self-satisfied. But it's a place I highly recommend if you can find a way to it. I had a bit of a jolt when I changed from electric to acoustic playing and was worried I might have lost something special, but it just needed adapting to a different type of instrument and gaining confidence. Mark
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Post by lavaman on Jul 17, 2015 21:47:56 GMT
I can relate to this - there are just so many steps to getting even a basic competence in classical guitar, but so long as I get to play more interesting things or make more beautiful music I'm good with it. It's mostly me doing the pushing - my guitar teacher seems to be pretty laid back with me - though I'm aware he can be a hard taskmaster with his university students - must be tuned in to issues with adult hobby learners - without parents pushing us and with an attitude that if it isn't interesting we're not interested, I think we make a challenging group of students! I just have to work more on being in the moment and enjoying the journey .... (I wonder if there is an exercise for that? ) How long did you take classical lessons Mark? I just realized I've been taking them for 2 years now (if you count the group lessons at the beginning). I initially took classical to get a good grounding in basics. You can either say now that I'm hooked on the classical guitar, or that it might take the rest of my playing life to get a good grounding I love where I have got to regardless of my lack of finesse and certain skills and despite my lack of desire to perform - I do feel quite self contained and I am as happy if not happier just playing as the mood takes me with no reference to songs or books or theory. It does wonderful things to my mental well being and helps negate the effects of 5 x 9 hours of weekdays. But I really owe so much to those 3 teachers and to the internet for unlocking so much information and help that wasn't available when I was young. H elp - I'm in danger of sounding very and self-satisfied. But it's a place I highly recommend if you can find a way to it. I had a bit of a jolt when I changed from electric to acoustic playing and was worried I might have lost something special, but it just needed adapting to a different type of instrument and gaining confidence. Mark No need to feel smug. This is what playing music is all about. Its a journey, but the fun part is that you're never quite sure of the destination. Iain
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chinanight
Strummer
Posts: 25
My main instrument is: Taylor and National
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Post by chinanight on Aug 7, 2015 8:48:22 GMT
If it's of any help.The way I learnt the fretboard was to lay the guitar on my lap, look away, tap the fret board with my index finger and say the note out loud. If I couldn't recognise it I would say all the notes from the open string until I reached my finger. Sounds a bit long winded but it worked for me.
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Post by creamburmese on Aug 7, 2015 16:13:11 GMT
I just re-read Mark's post, and it is inspiring. As a card-carrying goal-oriented person I have always had a hard time 'enjoying the journey." Reading that post made me realize that the road doesn't always take you where you originally envisaged, and the whole point is to enjoy where it takes you. I hadn't realized it, but I was subconsciously "worried" that I am still taking classical lessons because somewhere there was a nagging voice saying "when are you going to be good enough to get back to the acoustic?" Whereas the truth is I'm really enjoying learning classical and may never "get back" in the sense that I abandon the classical guitar, although I remain open to wanting to explore another genre that is best played on a steel string (got to have an excuse for keeping around my steel string guitars after all.) Just wish I had time to put in 10,000 hours and get half way decent at it!
Regarding Chinanight's suggestion - I can pretty much find any note by letter name on the fretboard - though not necessarily without thinking about it - the problem comes with instantly converting little black dots on the page to my finger on the fretboard (That darned sight reading again). I am half way decent at single notes in first position but add chords or intervals, or get further up the fretboard than fret 5 and I'm still working it out note by note. However I have resolved to practice sight reading pieces with increasing difficulty for 15 mins daily for the next 3 months (have to have a finish date or it may just peter out - I learned that in an organizational course at work). Then I'll reevaluate.
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