Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Dec 3, 2015 23:36:49 GMT
At an open mic night?! I think I'd tell them to get lost.
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Post by peterh on Dec 4, 2015 9:38:13 GMT
Well I must say I'm a bit surprised to hear who has difficulties with this, although losing your way I think happens to everyone I've ever seen.
But I do remember reading somewhere that you've got to know the the song as story, and sing it say 50 times without any music.
Might help... Regs Peter
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Dec 4, 2015 12:32:24 GMT
Well I must say I'm a bit surprised to hear who has difficulties with this, although losing your way I think happens to everyone I've ever seen. But I do remember reading somewhere that you've got to know the the song as story, and sing it say 50 times without any music. Might help... Regs Peter Hi Peter,
I guess your surprise is because you haven't yet reached a ripe age where loss of recent detailed memory becomes an issue due to natural causes; there are millions of us around, growing each year; or, if you have reached that age you are one of the lucky ones who haven't had it effect them (yet?). So make sure you enjoy it whilst you can. 50 times?? And the rest! And still just lose it!
regards
John
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Post by scorpiodog on Dec 4, 2015 13:16:22 GMT
Oh gosh yes. This is a horrible problem.
There are only 3 things that I've found that help:
1) Repetition, repetition, repetition; 2) Repetition, repetition, repetition; and 3) Repetition, repetition, repetition.
Should I repeat that?
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Post by Andy P on Dec 4, 2015 15:13:54 GMT
At one session I used to attend there were fourteen performers one evening. Eleven were singing from word sheets. Another of the other three looked at me and said "If they can't be bothered to learn, I can't be bothered to listen". A little harsh perhaps but I do sympathise with that view. At a session I now regularly attend one of the diehards arrived in the room to see four or five performers shuffeling word sheets. He looked around and quietly said "Ahh, a library..." Yes, reading the whole song off sheets is maybe taking it a bit far, but I don't see why you shouldn't have them there as back-up. It's only a free session so why be so precious about it?
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
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Post by Andy P on Dec 4, 2015 15:16:34 GMT
I not only can't remember words, but melodies my fingers have nailed dozens of times in the practice room fly away when I'm under stress. This, apparently, is because I've only learned them in muscle memory, and this reliably departs when stress is involved, so "conscious learning" (aka visualization) is also necessary. Good point. Fortunately I never have a problem with the playing, just the words. But I can see how it's possible to apply a more effective technique to learning lyrics, which may equate to visualisation.
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
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Post by Andy P on Dec 4, 2015 15:18:27 GMT
I can't even remember words I wrote myself. Fortunately I'm not mad enough to sing live so that lets me off the hook. It also saves an audience from suffering! Mark Funnily enough I don't have any more success with remembering lyrics I've written than lyrics I haven't. Odd that.
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
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Post by Andy P on Dec 4, 2015 15:20:55 GMT
Don Henley supposedly put in a few "Oh Baby" 's if he was stuck for words...probably risky for folky stuff... "Haul away Joe!" would probably do for traditional songs.
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,348
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Post by Riverman on Dec 4, 2015 15:25:00 GMT
Funnily enough I don't have any more success with remembering lyrics I've written than lyrics I haven't. Odd that. If anything it's more difficult, especially if like me you labour over every single word - so that by the time the song is finished I have to make a real effort to learn the final version, rather than one of the umpteen drafts still floating around in my subconscious!
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
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Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
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Post by Andy P on Dec 4, 2015 15:27:10 GMT
Funnily enough I don't have any more success with remembering lyrics I've written than lyrics I haven't. Odd that. If anything it's more difficult, especially if like me you labour over every single word - so that by the time the song is finished I have to make a real effort to learn the final version, rather than one of the umpteen drafts still floating around in my subconscious! Yep
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Post by lavaman on Dec 4, 2015 15:55:17 GMT
Perhaps I/we spend too much focus on learning and developing the muscle memory for the guitar part and don't give enough time or attention to the lyrics?. I agree with scorpiodog, repetition must help. I'm going to give the storyboard idea a go, that might help me remember the words. If I'm trying out a new song at an open mic, I'll use a song sheet.
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Post by slasher on Dec 8, 2015 14:48:59 GMT
Breedlover, I don't think it is being precious to expect people to put some effort in. I know of an Irish session where after one of the mini booms in Irish music suddenly had people turning up with bodhrans who had no idea how one should be played and then not understanding why they were not welcome. The same attitude as not learning the words. At sessions you are both performer and audience and most people do try to entertain. When someone stops mid-song, peers at the words and says "I've lost me place" or even worse "I can't read me own writing" they can't be suprised at the subsequent eye rolling. Yes allowances must be made for those who have genuine difficulties, it's those that can't be bothered that are the problem.
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Post by thejamsinger on Dec 8, 2015 22:15:57 GMT
I use an app on my tablet called lyric pad it's brilliant. No folders full of paper/song sheets etc. You can upload hundreds of songs and it auto scrolls. You can even get a clamp and fix your tablet to your mic stand.
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Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
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Post by Andy P on Dec 10, 2015 12:11:05 GMT
Breedlover, I don't think it is being precious to expect people to put some effort in. I know of an Irish session where after one of the mini booms in Irish music suddenly had people turning up with bodhrans who had no idea how one should be played and then not understanding why they were not welcome. The same attitude as not learning the words. At sessions you are both performer and audience and most people do try to entertain. When someone stops mid-song, peers at the words and says "I've lost me place" or even worse "I can't read me own writing" they can't be suprised at the subsequent eye rolling. Yes allowances must be made for those who have genuine difficulties, it's those that can't be bothered that are the problem. I quite agree slasher. I didn't say or imply that people shouldn't put some effort in, just that it was being precious to turn up your nose if someone has words there as back-up.
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Post by slasher on Dec 10, 2015 14:08:05 GMT
Where is the C.O.G. section anyway?
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