leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Sept 8, 2016 9:25:30 GMT
I guess there's a reason why Steve Knightley is an award-winning songwriter with shed loads of albums to his name and a decent living and I'm not.
My approach is:
1. hear a joke 2. make it rhyme 3. nick a tune from somewhere 4. record it 5. forget it.
SK's approach appears to be somewhat more in depth. As proved by his latest video blog. I'm finding it quite interesting to hear how he goes about things.. He's set himself the challenge, now that the festival season is over, to write a song a week for four weeks. Were I to take a week to write a song (as opposed to the twenty minutes I usually allow - for the whole process) there wouldn't be a great song at the end of the week, there'd only be the same rubbish but with thousands of verses! All, this AND he's given up booze. From where does he expect his creativity to come? Madness.
Anyway, here's the first three videos of his challenge - including him getting to know his new David Oddy guitar. I'll not post any more - if you want to find out more, follow him on FaceAche or YouTube.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 8, 2016 12:15:43 GMT
I've been following these Leo and they don't help me much !!!!
He really doesn't give that much away about his own creative process, thought is all interesting. The big problem I have is that I am trying to finish off three songs at the moment and there is danger that they will all sound like Steve Knightly songs !!
Important viewing though!
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missclarktree
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Post by missclarktree on Sept 8, 2016 14:22:08 GMT
I found it interesting and potentially inspiring, if only I could write songs. I can do something like the first part of his plan:_
"Saw a 'journal' in Asda the other day, black, 80 gsm paper, and couldn't resist buying it, even though I haven't written anything in it yet. Maybe tomorrow would be a good day to start. Tomorrow is the 9th of the 9th, an auspicious day to start a new health campaign. A little bit of cycling, no alcohol. I feel a bit of coherence coming on.
Look around brain. Any sign of an idea? No. Well, I did write a verse for Leo's song, so maybe that's enough for September.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 8, 2016 14:29:29 GMT
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 8, 2016 22:52:33 GMT
I found it interesting and potentially inspiring, if only I could write songs. I can do something like the first part of his plan:_ "Saw a 'journal' in Asda the other day, black, 80 gsm paper, and couldn't resist buying it, even though I haven't written anything in it yet. Maybe tomorrow would be a good day to start. Tomorrow is the 9th of the 9th, an auspicious day to start a new health campaign. A little bit of cycling, no alcohol. I feel a bit of coherence coming on. Look around brain. Any sign of an idea? No. Well, I did write a verse for Leo's song, so maybe that's enough for September. I find people obsessed with starting with lyrics. An idea or story is a good idea but then I find the tune drives everything else, including the lyrics. The key is having something to say about something.
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Post by vikingblues on Sept 9, 2016 6:29:19 GMT
This is interesting viewing. A song a week .... ouch! A song a month would be tough enough. It helps to have a harmonic progression / chord sequence that has a good rhythm going to it - that inspires a tune and inspires the choice and flow of words. I think it can help, as seemed to be the case here, that a tweak / change in tuning can also trigger ideas and creativity and may lead the melody into a more interesting shape, which can then be maintained even if ordinary tuning is returned to later in the process. It also helps at the same time to have the basic idea for a song - a kernel or nugget. In this case I see well how a phrase can trigger a lot of thoughts and possible lyrics. It's amazing how a basic idea of a single line of lyrics can mushroom if you manage to find a method to help with the lyric creation ideas. In my case I've found rhyming software is good, not for rhymes but for fresh ideas and those suggested words trigger new lines of the song. The more I try to think of ideas for words on my own and in a mental vacuum the worse it gets - that outside agency is very useful. I liked the point about trimming down words where they are in excess of the musical structure - something that I feel the writer can be guided by what sounds right. Rather than the academic approach of working out where strong points are in the musical structure and making sure that strong points in the word structure coincide - which is all very mechanical in nature and fills me with feelings of impending boredom. The rhythm of the words is as important as that of the musical accompaniment. I like the way he has those longer lines that go along with a break to the general rhythm that is in the rest of the song - adds variety and interest and highlights those lines very effectively. Looking forward to seeing and hearing how this progresses. I recall that the best part of the Sheffield University on-line writing course was watching a weekly video of how Martin Simpson was progressing in the putting together of the song. There's at least as much to be learnt from watching informative diaries of this sort as in listening to all the academic theory. The trouble with writing a song is you need so many skills:- Chord and harmonic progressions Making a strong structure with sound musical sense of verse / refrain / chorus / bridge etc Rhythm in the music Creative ideas for songs Editing the words to fit the musical structure and rhythm of the words Creating a mood and atmosphere Not to mention the skills of singing and being able to play the damn thing Oh dear! Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 9, 2016 7:12:40 GMT
It does demonstrate what you can do when you have proper time allocated to it. This week I managed to finish a lyric I was struggling with on a long train journey as well as starting another. Yesterday as a free day I was able to really work at a guitar arrangement, selecting the right key and so on. If I'd had that much space on the other days of this week - in which I was relaxed and energetic - Id have done a lot.
Trouble is days often don't work like that. Just goes to show that this is work !!!!
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Sept 9, 2016 12:47:35 GMT
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Post by slasher on Sept 9, 2016 13:49:34 GMT
I'm 67, I've written two songs. One is OKish (someone asked for the words/chords and they now sing it) The other song is not so good. Basically I'm lazy, it is a matter of time and focus for me. It is too easy to think of all the great songs already out there and think "Why bother?". I once saw a documentary about the Brill Building songwriting 'factory' in New York in the 50's and 60's. The songwriters there worked office hours and produced some of the great 20th century songs. Perhaps that is the kind of shove I need if I am to write anything more that is of value. The 'value' bit is very pertinent as a serious amount of self-criticism is required or someone you can trust to bounce your songs off and get an honest appraisal. You often come across 'Bar' songs. This is when someone says "and now I'm going to sing one of my own" and you take the opportunity to go to the bar because you have heard them before....
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 9, 2016 18:04:51 GMT
Oh dear slasher! I only do my own songs - fortunately the audience seems to stay !!!!
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Post by slasher on Sept 10, 2016 11:55:31 GMT
Well Andy you must be one of those who gets it right by thinking through and working at your songs, so many don't. It is a funny world though in that you can spend hours and hours on a song and it still turns out badly yet there are tales of great songs written in a quarter of an hour. I would never ever discourage anyone from having a go at songwriting. It is the 'being ruthless' with your own work that is the hard bit. Paul Macartney was once being praised by an interviewer regarding the large number of great songs he and Lennon produced. He replied to the effect "You should have seen the even greater number we junked as they were rubbish".
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 11, 2016 22:29:01 GMT
Well Andy you must be one of those who gets it right by thinking through and working at your songs, so many don't. It is a funny world though in that you can spend hours and hours on a song and it still turns out badly yet there are tales of great songs written in a quarter of an hour. I would never ever discourage anyone from having a go at songwriting. It is the 'being ruthless' with your own work that is the hard bit. Paul Macartney was once being praised by an interviewer regarding the large number of great songs he and Lennon produced. He replied to the effect "You should have seen the even greater number we junked as they were rubbish". True. A lot of ideas never get developed. I've just finished one new one, working on another but have five or six ideas with lovely tunes. Lyrics are always the challenge for me - they tend to be story songs. When they are finished they have to look forward to trial by open mic - a little original song in between 30 versions of Wonderwall and Dity Old Town.
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Post by andyhowell on Sept 13, 2016 7:50:45 GMT
Well Andy you must be one of those who gets it right by thinking through and working at your songs, so many don't. It is a funny world though in that you can spend hours and hours on a song and it still turns out badly yet there are tales of great songs written in a quarter of an hour. I would never ever discourage anyone from having a go at songwriting. It is the 'being ruthless' with your own work that is the hard bit. Paul Macartney was once being praised by an interviewer regarding the large number of great songs he and Lennon produced. He replied to the effect "You should have seen the even greater number we junked as they were rubbish". Some further thoughts. I think it is a bit easier doing only you own songs. I'm known for this now at the open mics I jump into and I think people do respect it. Of course they only have to listen to 2 or 3 before they can go back to Dirty Old Town or some Dylan and Springsteen cover. Still it works for me and then with more planning in proper events I can get to play to a proper audience for 30 - 45 minutes (which is about right for me). I do think we under-estimate audiences though. Over the last year I've bene supporting the Northfield Arts Forum who run multi arts events on Saturdays and on evenings. These are held in some very rough and challenging estates. I do my 40 minutes or so and I'm always pleasantly surprised by the number of teenagers that come up to me and tell me they like my musics. (Mind you the all like the song in which someone is shot). By way of contrast, there's an acoustic club near me patronised almost exclusively by musicians. They give four artists a night a 30 minute slot for which they should be congratulated. The organisers are old headbangers. They listen politely and then settle back into loving any crap piece of acoustic heavy metal covers :-) But that's playing live! It is what it is! SaveSave
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