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Post by delb0y on Nov 23, 2016 16:39:06 GMT
Thinking aloud, rather than asking a question. But happy to take on board any advice :-)
About three years ago I started focussing on finger-picking - rather than trying to play a bit of everything from swing to rock to bluegrass to gypsy jazz to electric blues to rockabilly to country. Basically, I hung my flatpick up, tucked my electric guitars away (*) and decided to focus on the one area that I enjoyed the most, felt I was best at (or could be best at), and which seemed ideal for a future solo / duo / singer-songwriter sort of existence in the far future when I retire. I gave myself a ten year plan (well, there was no plan - just a time period) to get decent enough at this to go out and do such gigs (albeit only locally).
All was good. My fingerpicking (or thumb-picking as I call it, as I tend more towards the blue collar side of the style, rather than anything delicate) improved and I wrote a few songs, did a bit of networking, got into double figures with solo gigs and built up some confidence and so on. Not bad for the first three years.
But now I seem to have hit the plateau. I'm not getting any better - I enjoy learning new songs, but my underlying ability seems stuck at alternating bass level. Somehow I need to break out of this rut and move forwards to the next level. I have a ton of books and DVDs and on-line material... but something is missing. So I need a plan. Maybe it's chord knowledge? Maybe it's getting these ageing fingers to move quicker, stretch further, or be a little more flexible. Maybe I need to find some songs that have a fourth chord? I don't know. But I think I need a year or so of a more structured routine to see me break through the existing barriers. Maybe I need exercises and etudes not songs? Maybe revisit DADGAD and/or slide on open tunings?
Like I said above, any thoughts welcome on how I break away from a very basic Travis style whilst still staying in that territory?
Cheers D
(*) I still play the electric in a band, but I don't work very hard at learning new stuff. Where I'm at is where I'm at.
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Nov 23, 2016 20:29:28 GMT
I hate to say this...but try experimenting with an alternate tuning. I'm very much like you: alternating bass and mostly cowboy chords (which is good enough for me) but the few times I've tried DADGAD or something else it has really challenged me to play differently.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 23, 2016 22:59:25 GMT
Stick with fingerpicking in standard tuning - you obviously have a good grasp on this, so to expand on it try to learn, or write some things in other than 4/4 timing. In 4/4 it's not necessary to have alternating basses, but it's very easy to fall back on them.
3/4 or 6/8 will help you get away from the alternating bass thing and increase the variety of right hand techniques. Try interspersing partial chords with the fingers here and there, and thumbed basslines which move smoothly from one chord to the next, and/or use bass notes other than root or fifth.
Try letting the treble strings feature on strong beats instead of the bass - even a bass/treble "pinch" will help this to happen.
I've never been able to learn a new techniques/styles as an isolated "thing". I need to have particular songs/choons that inspire me to try something different. So do try listening more often to music you maybe wouldn't normally choose - something may well inspire you.
Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Nov 24, 2016 8:27:41 GMT
You have the opposite problem to me ... I can't get anywhere with styles that require the discipline of alternating bass! I meander along playing in an undisciplined rather random way. So, as I haven't cracked the reverse problem, I'm not convinced I'm expert enough to advise you Derek. But that won't stop me! Like Leo I would have suggested open and altered tunings, probably because I enjoy them so much, but I can see virtue in Keiths thoughts on what you can do with standard tunings too. Maybe try and work out new songs in an unusual / different mode. For example E Phrygian (E F G A B C D) with it's trademark sounds from flattened 2 and flattened 6 (F & C). It requires a variation in the sort of chards used to fit the scale and should give a very strong and different flavour of sound. For that matter maybe try experimenting with different chord voicings on pieces you already play. Maybe try alternating playing guitar with a new instrument if you don't already do this. Mandolin, Banjo , whatever. Maybe try and warp your mind with a spider capo. You can stay in standard tuning so the relative note positions stay the same and partial fretted chord shapes still work but the altered (however many you want) open strings you choose to capo will mean changing the way you play chords and will give new flavours of sounds to chords with the different chord voicing. Often these negative moods and feeling of being on a plateau will lift. I must admit I've been overall much less worried about this aspect since I started taking on the idea that I should enjoy the journey and ignore the destination, particularly given that if I reached it I would just immediately replace it with another destination and then fret (no pun intended ) about that instead. Mark
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Post by lavaman on Nov 24, 2016 10:22:56 GMT
I think moving beyond alternating thumb bass is difficult. Blind Blake's 'sporting thumb' is what sets him apart from other players.
Maybe try a couple of blues tunes with a monotone bass; e.g. Big Bill Broonzy playing Hey Hey. Whilst keeping the bass groove going try playing quarter notes with your fingers, then eighth notes, then triplets, then vary them up. Practice very slowly, that way you have time to think.
I like Keith's idea, play chord inversion with a different bass note to get the bass line moving up and down.
Let us all know if you find something that helps Iain
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Post by delb0y on Nov 24, 2016 18:38:12 GMT
Cheers all. Some good ideas here. I do enjoy open tunings (and a bit of slide) and DADGAD but I struggle to remember another set of chord shapes. But maybe that's the challenge right there? I like the idea of 3/4 time, too, to help me break out of the boom-chick. I was listening to some ragtime last night and a lot of that has some very nice bass lines and syncopation and that may be an area to explore (one note at a time). I shall ponder on this for a week or so and maybe write out some goals - or a goal. Keep the suggestions coming!
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leitrimnick
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Post by leitrimnick on Dec 4, 2016 12:30:30 GMT
Might seem a bit 'philosophical' but have you tried not thinking about playing but just doing it. Let the hands take over. Try it first in DADGAD as whatever you do that octave bass seems to keep you grounded. Noodle, see what comes up. You might well find your hands doing things which surprise you. They're the things you try and remember and feed into you technique. It's the way I would approach a different tuning, sometimes that goes nowhere but a dead end but then you just dump that idea and go somewhere else. With luck, through good and bad your hands end up teaching you something worthwhile, your brain catches up later when you try to repeat it.
Hope this makes some sort of sense as a slightly different approach which might unblock your playing.
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Post by creamburmese on Dec 5, 2016 21:49:40 GMT
You can all throw things at me here (or you may be far beyond this - I'm a relative beginner), but I think you might consider delving more into music theory ( composition, tonal harmonization) and follow that with the typical chordal patterns used in eg. jazz, bossa nova, modal music etc. I'm always blown away by the way the pro classical guitarists can just take a simple melody and harmonize it 3 different ways for 3 entirely different sounds...all based on their knowledge of theory...
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Dec 5, 2016 22:02:58 GMT
You can all throw things at me here (or you may be far beyond this) No, you're far beyond us... I can't throw my socks into the laundry basket, I've no chance of chucking something at you in America. With your talk of theory, mind, it's only distance that's stopping me
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Post by creamburmese on Dec 5, 2016 22:13:31 GMT
LOL! (good job they don't have intercontinental drones capable of throwing socks!!!) My story about this is I asked my guitar teacher to recommend a beginner music theory book (if you're interested he suggested a book called "harmonic materials in tonal music") - long story short - it took me about 3 days to decipher the first 3 pages. His idea of a beginner book and mine were obviously not on the same planet. I subsequently worked my way slowly through the introductory book PRIOR to that and then took a year taking weekly theory classes. This got me up to the stage where I could just about begin this "beginner" book - though admittedly I haven't actually had another go at it yet...
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Post by delb0y on Dec 5, 2016 22:21:06 GMT
Well... I'm still re-thinking the whole thing. I'm thinking that it may serve me best to be reasonable at one style, rather than wholly inadequate at many. I love slide and I love ragtime and I love blues (I've been learning John Fahey's "Some Summer Day" as an exercise in monotone bass - as per Lavaman's suggestion above) and I've really enjoyed dabbling with DADGAD but I'm starting to think that it'll be a mistake to broaden my horizon just after I've managed to narrow them so much. I'm a country finger-style player at heart - Jerry Reed, Merle Travis, Chet etc. I think my plan may have to be within the parameters set by these guys. There's more than enough there to last a lifetime. Still trying to figure it out, though! I haven't formulated that plan yet.
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Post by walkingdecay on Dec 6, 2016 8:57:22 GMT
When I came back to guitar after a long time away Eric Schoenberg's book Fingerpicking Beatles really helped me get back into moving the basslines in standard tuning. He starts from a Atkins/Travis base (um, bass...) but takes in a lot of independent thumb work along the way, including a particularly nice walking bass version of Lady Madonna. The familiarity of the tunes helps, I think. I'm afraid I can't find my copy to send to you at the moment, so it probably drowned (long story) but if I find it I'll message you.
I'll add that I expect Chet's own books would be helpful too, though I haven't tried any. My knowledge of the great man's playing came from his column in the long dead Frets magazine. Chet was so good at the bass and treble duality thing that he could play two tunes at once.
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Post by scorpiodog on Dec 7, 2016 11:02:34 GMT
You can all throw things at me here (or you may be far beyond this - I'm a relative beginner), but I think you might consider delving more into music theory ( composition, tonal harmonization) and follow that with the typical chordal patterns used in eg. jazz, bossa nova, modal music etc. I'm always blown away by the way the pro classical guitarists can just take a simple melody and harmonize it 3 different ways for 3 entirely different sounds...all based on their knowledge of theory... I've just bought this bookSome of it seems pretty understandable, though I've only just started working through it. It does deal with music theory, but against the background of well known popular songs, which gives me a context I can relate to. May not be your cup of tea, but it's not that expensive. I recommend it.
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 10, 2016 10:32:21 GMT
Some interesting and conflicting ideas here — nothing wrong with that.
The thing about alternate tunings a la Leo (has Leo being craftily changing style) is that it is very easy to get away from alternative bass! Then again Keith's suggestions are sound as well.
My simple point is this. Playing the guitar needs to be fun, perhaps a release from the stress of the day. If this isn't working put the damn thing down for a bit.
Personally, I gave up worrying about technical complexity a while ago. I'm not sure progression is important for my please — a bit of variety is but I'm quite happy with crap variety these days.
I've mentioned elsewhere having a bit of a downer on my own music this week. I got out my OM, put on new light strings and happily crashed around some ragtime stuff that Ive been playing for years. It's not as good as it used to me. But who cares? I was happier!
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Post by delb0y on Dec 10, 2016 13:13:37 GMT
Yes, I'm beginning to think I'm over-thinking it all - even to the extent of using the word think three times in one sentence. It is meant to be fun :-)
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