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Post by andyhowell on Jan 18, 2017 11:56:40 GMT
Totally agree with Andy. My 'versions' of songs are nearly always a workaround of things I can't do. And there's a lot of them! (As a result, 'my version' of Classical Gas' bears an uncanny resemblance to 'Show me the way to go Home' ...) ....
FFJ
Yesterday I was listening to some old guitar recordings I made a year or so ago. I was surprised at how complicated they were at some points. There were flurries that no longer exist in the arrangements. I suspect if I made a tab of them I'd suddenly realise what i had done. But it always ;ays to verge on the side of simplicity I find, especially with live playing and recording. SaveSave
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Post by delb0y on Jan 19, 2017 14:49:51 GMT
I've been thinking a bit about my finger-picking, even listening to it a bit, and I conclude I'm in the same camp as a number of the other folks (over on page 1 of this thread so I can't look up their names :-) Sorry). These days most of what I do is a simplified version of what I'm trying and hoping to do, and in that simplification I end up doing something that is me. So I guess that's a good thing. When I were younger I always wanted to play things correctly. These days I'm more than happy to fumble my way through and just have all my fingers get to the end at the same time.
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Post by NikGnashers on Jan 21, 2017 8:32:19 GMT
I've been thinking a bit about my finger-picking, even listening to it a bit, and I conclude I'm in the same camp as a number of the other folks (over on page 1 of this thread so I can't look up their names :-) Sorry). These days most of what I do is a simplified version of what I'm trying and hoping to do, and in that simplification I end up doing something that is me. So I guess that's a good thing. When I were younger I always wanted to play things correctly. These days I'm more than happy to fumble my way through and just have all my fingers get to the end at the same time. I think I need to take this on board. I have been trying to play Black Water Side exactly as Bert played it, and realistically, that is never going to happen. He was a genius player, and I am not (and never will be lol) !
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Post by vikingblues on Jan 21, 2017 9:53:51 GMT
It's a wonderful feeling of freedom and release not to be constrained and just do as you feel at the time. Unfortunately that alternates with feelings of inadequacy in not being able to play as per "instructed". Hence my starting the thread. I'm very happy to see the number of forum members that are happily in the more free-form interpretation camp of which fingers should go where! Looking at the glass half full (and I do sometimes do that!) not being able to use my left hand pinkie rules out playing almost anything done by a good guitarist. It's a great and true excuse! Mark PS - Derek, I often open a new page / tab on my browser onto the same thread so I can remind myself of what went on in earlier pages while creating a new post.
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 23, 2017 16:38:34 GMT
Whatever works for you, well, it just works !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 15:00:00 GMT
I just can't do the Travis picking thing. I try to make the thumb play on the bottom 3 strings and just use any of the other fingers that I can manage to clag on any of the top strings that need sounding. I'm more crab claw hammer than claw hammer.
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Riverman
Artist / Performer
Posts: 7,345
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Post by Riverman on Mar 5, 2017 16:48:43 GMT
I just can't do the Travis picking thing. I try to make the thumb play on the bottom 3 strings and just use any of the other fingers that I can manage to clag on any of the top strings that need sounding. I'm more crab claw hammer than claw hammer. I'm sure you can learn it. It's mainly muscle memory to begin with, which I teach through patterns; once you've got that, it's about breaking the pattern so that the thumb carries on playing the bass notes and keeping the rhythm, while the fingers play the melody and fill in the harmony. Finger a G chord and play this with your picking hand, counting 1-2-3-4 as you go: 1 - Thumb plays 6th string 2 - Index finger plays 3rd string 3 - Thumb plays 4th string 4 - Middle finger plays 2nd string Do it very slowly at first (it doesn't need to sound like music at this stage - remember you're simply teaching your thumb and fingers to make movements they may not be accustomed to). Concentrate on getting the notes clean and evenly spaced. If it's difficult, slow down even more and use one of the many free metronome apps to play to. Do it over and over and over and over and over and over again... After a while your hand will "get" the pattern and you'll be able to do it without thinking. Then you can start making it sound like music!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:18:52 GMT
Thanks for the fingerpicking suggestion Riverman. I have tried to play like this on numerous occasions and have used the excuse of the saddle string spacings on my acoustic being smaller than most acoustics! But I realise that this excuse is flawed because I've seen guitarists Travis pick on electric guitars where the saddle end may be even more cramped for string spacings.
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 5, 2017 23:38:34 GMT
I'm afraid this is going to make me sound like a complete ignoramus &/or musically unsophisticated, but ..... part of my own trouble with trying to get enthused about learning specific finger style playing like Travis is my not knowing what the point of the whole exercise is. No teaching ever seems to go into the musical benefits of that and Google searches don't seem to find the answer either - it's just that it always seems to be presented as famous player [enter name here] played like this so it has to be a good thing to learn.
Not that I'm 100% sure I want to know a good reason as it could then mean I have a reason to learn it. I will then get found out in my lacking the ability to learn the damn thing, rather than being able to claim (as I do now) that I have a low boredom threshold which means I don't manage to practice it enough.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 9:29:53 GMT
Maybe veering a bit off topic....but my plectrum work is rather iffy too. Can't crosspick for the life of me. My lack of prowess of actually striking the strings with either a plectrum or fingers probably goes a long way to making me sound c**p! I wouldn't wish the "Accrington" style finger picking technique on anyone.
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Post by delb0y on Mar 6, 2017 18:33:58 GMT
Mark, for me the point of learning alternating bass patterns (whether they're called Travis Picking or something else) is simply that it's a great way to accompany oneself. It's a great feeling to have the bass lines going on (even if they're simple) as well as the chords and some melody. Audiences seem to like it, too.
Stan, cross=picking is one of the toughest styles to play well. I wish I could do it! You ever listen to David Grier? I swear he came from a different planet!
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Post by robmc on Mar 17, 2017 21:22:56 GMT
I've spent the last year or so getting to grips with alternating bass Travis picking. I'd definitely recommend Mark Hanson's books, The Art of Contemporary Travis Picking and The Art of Solo Fingerpicking, I'd imagine the first book may be basic (and a bit dull) for any accomplished player but it provides a great foundation which the second book builds on. I've found the simple structure that underpins the style a good way to improve timing, better understand tempo and phrasing and I've also noticed as I stuck with it that it's helped me play more musically. The second book really helps with this, particularly the CD. He goes about deconstructing the style and freeing things up to allow improvisation.
I find the patterns quite liberating as they become more familiar which seems a bit of a contradiction but it's had that effect on me.
I can't use a pic!
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 18, 2017 8:23:37 GMT
Interesting! Sorry Derek, it's taken me a while to spot your post. I get the impression that these sort of picking styles are really geared up to accompany yourself ... i.e. support your singing. Which I do very little of (the world should thank me!). Maybe that's partly why I have a problem with it - that it doesn't fit in with the sort of things I'm usually playing. Good point about audiences too, but they're somewhat absent in my guitar playing routine! Thankfully. That is very thought provoking Rob that you have found familiarity of patterns to be liberating. It does seem a bit of a contradiction to what I have found but that's typical of so many things to do with guitar - a wide range of reactions and thoughts by players to any one thing, and no definitive right answers. I've certainly found with improvisation that familiarly with a tuning and it's potential chord structures inhibits my playing! Part of the reason I keep seeking out new tunings ... it helps feed my improv habit. I note what you say about the learning process with those books helping you play more musically - food for thought. Mark
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Post by delb0y on Mar 18, 2017 18:03:10 GMT
I agree with Rob re. those books - they really are excellent. I played a trio gig last night and had the opportunity midway through the second set to do a couple of solo finger-picking songs. Through years of doing this (not finger-picking, but just general gigging) I think I have a pretty good sense of when something is working for the audience and a few heads were definitely turned. It wasn't that the playing or singing was particularly good (they weren't), it's just that style - thumb-picking, I call it, but Travis picking, finger-picking whatever - is a cool style that the average pub audience (at least round the Shire) doesn't get to witness very often.
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Post by robmc on Mar 19, 2017 11:15:18 GMT
I can relate to that Derek, I just like the sound it makes, hard to describe but it has a basic familiarity to me, like walking or breathing (except after too much ale). What was also an eyeopener was learning songs that I didn't know off tab and then listening to how they are supposed to sound on the CD. I learn the tab first then listened to the CD, not so much in the first book but in the second I just knew my 'version' wasn't right. In particular, my tab learnt version of Martin Simpson's Fishin' Blues sounded like an estranged, distant and possibly inbred relative. A proper six-fingered-webbed-seal-flipper take leoroberts Mark, I haven't tried open tunings yet but I will be taking a look when I think I've got the tools! I think the fingertsyle patterns work well for me at the moment, I'd liken it to painting a picture but only using the primary colours, there are only four patterns but the variations within them are pretty infinite. Rob
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