leitrimnick
C.O.G.
Posts: 152
My main instrument is: Fylde Oberon
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Post by leitrimnick on Dec 28, 2016 19:49:09 GMT
Just a bit of clarification. The alteration in strings I've made was to change from one wrap to another, the manufacturer and gauges remain the same. I wouldn't advocate radical changes in stringing just for the sake of recording. The result of that would probably be one or both hands going out of wack as everything feels different and bends, hammers, pull-offs etc might become less controlled. I changed because the sound I had in my head was not that which I heard recorded. It's a truism that no-one hears their own guitar properly as we all sit the wrong side of the projected sound but my beloved Oberon just didn't produce the sound I wanted. For years I assumed it was me, as the monitors (Tannoy Reveal actives) surely wouldn't lie. To get the result I wanted on the first album took quite a lot of EQ work, particularly with the mids. The end result has got airplay around the world so I must have got something right...but I did take a bit of mental effort. Gut feeling suggests the string change I made will reduce the need for such work as the guitar is less mellow with brighter trebles whilst retaining its intrinsic character, a positive bonus when using a tuning such as open C.
The eventual point of all this blather is that, if recording, it helps to have an idea of the sound that you want. If you are happy that the guitar is close to this then you may have a little more wiggle room in mic placement, mic choice (if you have options) etc. Just for the record I only mics I have are a matched pair of AKG C1000s which I've had for ~fifteen years.
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 31, 2016 13:48:52 GMT
Have you thought about a ribbon mic? SE electronics make a very reasonably priced one. They aren't condenser, and you have to be very careful not to supply phantom power, but the sound of one of these is very organic, and they sound terrific in front of an electric guitar amplifier. Rode make an extremely nice one, but it is about £500. Listen to their demo of it though. Robbie Hi Robbie Yes I have! However, I have heard loads of conflicting remarks about what they work with and what they don't! It's interesting that they work well in front of a guitar amp, that's really interesting. It's extremely frustrating that you have to suck it and see with mics, there's little if any opportunity to try one before you buy so it's often down to trying to find someone that has one. I noticed that SE have a riboon version of the X1A mic so I'm wondering whether it might be worth buying a standard version and also a ribbon version and that would appear to cobver all the bases.
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 31, 2016 13:59:51 GMT
Good points but remember Mic placement is probably the most significant factor! Have to agree with Andy. I'm not really that much of a techie so I won't add anything to the discussion re mic specs etc. One variable which hasn't been mentioned is the way an acoustic is strung. This year I returned to Bright Bronze strings after years of using Phosphor Bronze (always GHS). The change in tone was significant, and this is on a Fylde Oberon I have owned for decades. I will be recording an album for release in the Spring and I'm sure that the change in tone will have a small but noticeable effect on the recording/mix/mastering process. This is an extremely good point! I had used phospher bronze for 30+ years before literally stumbling across a set of bronze that were left in the case of a guitar I bought. I eventually decided to give them a try and was blown away by the difference they made, relative to phospher/bronze. I can strongly recommend them on all mahogany guitars, they add another dimension.
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Post by rob on Jan 3, 2017 13:28:52 GMT
I was talking to a guy who had one of the Aston Origin mics a rew days back and he was saying the mic had quite a bit of self noise(hiss) and didn't seem super happy with it, he suggested an Audio Technica 4033. In the market myself so trying to figure out what to buy😑 Rob
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Post by vikingblues on Jan 3, 2017 13:46:31 GMT
It's so difficult to know what to buy with microphones isn't it Rob! There's the problem of not knowing how a microphone will perform until it's in your own environment and it depends on how the microphone interacts with your own equipment, instruments and voice. I found from personal experience trying to buy matched microphones that even two that are supposed to be matched can have significantly different characteristics. One of the microphones I currently use does sometimes have some of that self noise you mentioned when first plugged in. Switching the low roll-off filter switch off and then back on again clears it. Mark
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Post by rob on Jan 3, 2017 14:05:34 GMT
I have an akg c451 which seems too bright to my ears on my lakewood m32, someone else suggested Rode NT2A, CAD M179...😕 Regards Rob😊
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 4, 2017 10:58:53 GMT
I was talking to a guy who had one of the Aston Origin mics a rew days back and he was saying the mic had quite a bit of self noise(hiss) and didn't seem super happy with it, he suggested an Audio Technica 4033. In the market myself so trying to figure out what to buy😑 Rob I'd be surprised if this was true toady significant extent. I've read a few reviews now from people who know what they are doing and none of them have mentioned this! SaveSave
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 4, 2017 11:06:11 GMT
I have an akg c451 which seems too bright to my ears on my lakewood m32, someone else suggested Rode NT2A, CAD M179...😕 Regards Rob😊 I'd be a little surprised by this as well! However, the Rode is a decent mic although not as rich in the mids and low end as something more expensive. Your recording room has a lot to do with all of this. I've just made one of the best recordings I've made for ages. It was in a 15th Century house with very solid walls. The natural acoustic of the room was superb. I placed two small condensers on a stereo bar about six feet from the female singer. The guitar accompanists (me) was positioned a little to one side and a little beside the singer. The singer was positioned in the middle of the stereo mics. The resulting raw recording was superb and shows just how good small condensers can be with vocals. In basic terms it needed no treatment at all but as it was a single source recording I did employ a few bits of processing. A little compression brought forward the vocals a bit. I took down the lower mids and gave a subtle boost to the high mids. This simply lowered the volume of the guitar and increased the volume of the vocal a little— they inhabited different spaces in the sound spectrum. this was simply adjusting the balance of the mix — as I would have done using faders on a multi track recording. But the room was the star. Try different recording spaces and see how that effects the tone of the AKG! SaveSave
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Post by rob on Jan 4, 2017 16:54:21 GMT
Had a few hours today with no one mithering, put the akg up and managed to do a short quick run through a few chords and the recording didn't seem to come up too badly for a quick play....note to self make sure the 150hz filter is not engaged on the mic😞 app.box.com/s/wq7ikiz65nvo8zkqu81pxqvl7u94lmv6Regards Rob😊
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 4, 2017 17:46:43 GMT
Had a few hours today with no one mithering, put the akg up and managed to do a short quick run through a few chords and the recording didn't seem to come up too badly for a quick play....note to self make sure the 150hz filter is not engaged on the mic😞 app.box.com/files/0/f/0/1/f_118867922448Regards Rob😊 Can't get access Rob — site keeps asking for a password! SaveSave
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Post by rob on Jan 4, 2017 18:45:55 GMT
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Post by surfguy13 on Jan 4, 2017 20:35:05 GMT
I have an akg c451 which seems too bright to my ears on my lakewood m32, someone else suggested Rode NT2A, CAD M179...😕 Regards Rob😊 I'd be a little surprised by this as well! However, the Rode is a decent mic although not as rich in the mids and low end as something more expensive. Your recording room has a lot to do with all of this. I've just made one of the best recordings I've made for ages. It was in a 15th Century house with very solid walls. The natural acoustic of the room was superb. I placed two small condensers on a stereo bar about six feet from the female singer. The guitar accompanists (me) was positioned a little to one side and a little beside the singer. The singer was positioned in the middle of the stereo mics. The resulting raw recording was superb and shows just how good small condensers can be with vocals. In basic terms it needed no treatment at all but as it was a single source recording I did employ a few bits of processing. A little compression brought forward the vocals a bit. I took down the lower mids and gave a subtle boost to the high mids. This simply lowered the volume of the guitar and increased the volume of the vocal a little— they inhabited different spaces in the sound spectrum. this was simply adjusting the balance of the mix — as I would have done using faders on a multi track recording. But the room was the star. Try different recording spaces and see how that effects the tone of the AKG! SaveSaveI this is an excellent point. We tend to spend too much time worrying about equipment and not enough time considering acoustics. Also mic placement. I always use the same space for playing/recording and so I know exactly where everything has to go to get the best sound. That doesn't mean I get it right every time but at least it is consistent! Of course the guitar is not something to ignore either! My main guitar is all mahogany and for me this has made a huge difference relative to more conventional timber combinations. I have always tended to struggle with treble responses when using a rosewood/spruce guitar and all too often found myself very unhappy with over-bright and sometimes harsh trebles. Mahogany seems to be able to offer a smoother top end but without loosing the clarity and bright response you expect from rsoewood/spruce. As mentioned earlier in this thread, strings seem to make a difference too. With this particular guitar I find that I get a totally different response depending on whether I use phospher bronze or bronze.
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Post by rob on Jan 4, 2017 21:03:57 GMT
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 4, 2017 22:01:30 GMT
That recording seems fine to me - richer mids but the treble is there and the bass not too dominant!
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Post by andyhowell on Jan 4, 2017 22:02:42 GMT
Apparently mixing a ribbon and a condenser for stereo is interesting!
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