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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 21, 2016 17:44:54 GMT
Hi everyone I am still trying to decide on a condenser mike which will be used mainly for recording acoustic guitar.....however, the twist is that I would, in an ideal world, like a mic that would double for use in front of a guitar cab for recording electrics. I know that this throws up challenges and compromises but I am getting heartily sick of looking at what's out there and trying to make a decision! So.......I just wondered whether anybody had bought a mic for this dual purpose and if so how it had performed. It's quite straightforward getting hold of a good condenser mic for an acoustic once you have made a decision on what you want to spend but finding a mic that has a foot in both camps is far more difficult. Finally has anyone had any experiences with goose neck mics like the Thomann T-bone Ovid system? Just wondered if they were a bit bulky to use? Any ideas/advice would be most welcome! Cheers Guy
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 22, 2016 13:47:06 GMT
The decent condenser mics should be able to cover both tasks without any problems. As you've suggested the main decision is to decide your budget. But a good mix from any of the reputable manufacturers should be fine.
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Post by Adam on Dec 22, 2016 13:54:12 GMT
What's your budget mate? I love my Lewitt LCT640 for acoustics. I've also had great joy using some of the small diaphragm t-bone mics as a stereo setup for my acoustic. I wouldn't particularly use either on electric cabs though.
If I could only have one mic from my small collection that I would use for both jobs it would be the SE Electronics X1. I think they are less than £100 now also.
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 22, 2016 14:04:52 GMT
The decent condenser mics should be able to cover both tasks without any problems. As you've suggested the main decision is to decide your budget. But a good mix from any of the reputable manufacturers should be fine. Yes, you're dead right, budget is everything. However, good to know that a decent quality condenser mic will work for both an acoustic and miking up a cab. I use an SM57 for miking up cabs at the moment, and have done for many years, but in the past I've used a condenser mic in tandem with it and you really do get a great range. It gets incredibly confusing looking at mic's on the internet and yet it's clearly not something you can try out so having an opinion is most helpful. So far it looks as if the MXL 770 seems to be a good all round mic. I will keep looking!!
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 22, 2016 14:11:37 GMT
What's your budget mate? I love my Lewitt LCT640 for acoustics. I've also had great joy using some of the small diaphragm t-bone mics as a stereo setup for my acoustic. I wouldn't particularly use either on electric cabs though. If I could only have one mic from my small collection that I would use for both jobs it would be the SE Electronics X1. I think they are less than £100 now also. I really can't decide whether to chuck a decent amount of cash at a condenser or just go for what I have in the past which is a sub £200 mic. I had an SE2200A for a long time and that was excellent but sadly died last year. I think that was only about £120. Really helpful to know that the X1 is so good and will work for both guitars and cabs. I had seen it but don't know anybody that has one so.......! If this has worked so well for you I might just go ahead and grab one as a recommendation counts for a hell of a lot. Appreciate it. Although the Lewitt sounds amazing it is slightly more than I would like to spend; however, as with the X1, really good to have a recommendation from someone that has one. Most of the mics I've had have lasted almost indefinitely so it's not overmuch money to spend on a quality mic that will keep on giving!!
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Post by Adam on Dec 22, 2016 14:34:55 GMT
What's your budget mate? I love my Lewitt LCT640 for acoustics. I've also had great joy using some of the small diaphragm t-bone mics as a stereo setup for my acoustic. I wouldn't particularly use either on electric cabs though. If I could only have one mic from my small collection that I would use for both jobs it would be the SE Electronics X1. I think they are less than £100 now also. I really can't decide whether to chuck a decent amount of cash at a condenser or just go for what I have in the past which is a sub £200 mic. I had an SE2200A for a long time and that was excellent but sadly died last year. I think that was only about £120. Really helpful to know that the X1 is so good and will work for both guitars and cabs. I had seen it but don't know anybody that has one so.......! If this has worked so well for you I might just go ahead and grab one as a recommendation counts for a hell of a lot. Appreciate it. Although the Lewitt sounds amazing it is slightly more than I would like to spend; however, as with the X1, really good to have a recommendation from someone that has one. Most of the mics I've had have lasted almost indefinitely so it's not overmuch money to spend on a quality mic that will keep on giving!! I got my X1 several years ago and it was about £140, maybe it had just come out. It was still made in china etc, so it can't be too much different. It is a good all round workhouse, great on female vocals I found (also as a hi-hat mic of all things, but I digress).
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 22, 2016 16:13:53 GMT
I really can't decide whether to chuck a decent amount of cash at a condenser or just go for what I have in the past which is a sub £200 mic. I had an SE2200A for a long time and that was excellent but sadly died last year. I think that was only about £120. Really helpful to know that the X1 is so good and will work for both guitars and cabs. I had seen it but don't know anybody that has one so.......! If this has worked so well for you I might just go ahead and grab one as a recommendation counts for a hell of a lot. Appreciate it. Although the Lewitt sounds amazing it is slightly more than I would like to spend; however, as with the X1, really good to have a recommendation from someone that has one. Most of the mics I've had have lasted almost indefinitely so it's not overmuch money to spend on a quality mic that will keep on giving!! I got my X1 several years ago and it was about £140, maybe it had just come out. It was still made in china etc, so it can't be too much different. It is a good all round workhouse, great on female vocals I found (also as a hi-hat mic of all things, but I digress). It seems like the X1 has now been superceeded by the X1A but looks pretty much identical. I'm not too technical so looking at the technical specs for each didn't mean a lot. It looks like they do a kick-drum version of the X1A as well! The SE2200A seemed to excell in all areas that I tried it......vocals, miking up guitar and bass cabs and of course acoustic too. I normally DI bass but the SE2200A seemed to handle it very well indeed to my surprise.
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 22, 2016 21:09:48 GMT
Have a look at the new Aston mics - if I was looking for a first quality mic, I would be looking at these. Designed and built in U.K.!
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 23, 2016 10:26:54 GMT
Have a look at the new Aston mics - if I was looking for a first quality mic, I would be looking at these. Designed and built in U.K.! Wow, these mics look really excellent and the BIG thing in their favour is that they're UK made. Thanks so much for the nod, appreciate it!
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Post by andyhowell on Dec 23, 2016 10:43:07 GMT
By all accounts these are great on both guitar and vocal and hold their own with mics twice the price.
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,549
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Dec 23, 2016 12:35:10 GMT
Not doing the whole 'make it louder' thing, I don't know if this is either relevant or of interest... Free dual pop filter
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 23, 2016 13:56:51 GMT
Not doing the whole 'make it louder' thing, I don't know if this is either relevant or of interest... Free dual pop filterI think that's a damn good deal, particuarly as one of the options was a X1A!!
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 23, 2016 19:18:35 GMT
I was reading a Sound on Sound article recently which mentioned that there are a fair old number of very high reputation engineers who will happily record an amp with a Condenser Microphone. Nearly always a large diaphragm one. Needless to say all the microphones mentioned in the article ran into £000 levels! But it does sound as if it's a very valid option to use a condenser. I've seen it said that there's potential to overload and damage a condenser microphone while a dynamic can stand so much more pain. The fact that there's an almost universal acceptance that a small diaphragm condenser is not good for recording amps would make the single microphone plan a problem for me. I've found the small diaphragm condenser so much better for recording acoustic that I wouldn't want to go large for that. Conversely vocals sound so much better with large than small. But I guess that's the case in all things - any jack of all trades will do a lot of things with no problems, but it will lack that added extra sparkle in some of those areas. I'm afraid from personal experience I can't comment on recording with a condenser microphone off the amp as living in a flat the neighbours issue means I'm recording a guitar amp from the line out with a Webber Micro Msss in the chain to shut off the speaker if any grit is needed in the sound. Good luck in your search! Mark
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Post by surfguy13 on Dec 23, 2016 22:00:13 GMT
I was reading a Sound on Sound article recently which mentioned that there are a fair old number of very high reputation engineers who will happily record an amp with a Condenser Microphone. Nearly always a large diaphragm one. Needless to say all the microphones mentioned in the article ran into £000 levels! But it does sound as if it's a very valid option to use a condenser. I've seen it said that there's potential to overload and damage a condenser microphone while a dynamic can stand so much more pain. The fact that there's an almost universal acceptance that a small diaphragm condenser is not good for recording amps would make the single microphone plan a problem for me. I've found the small diaphragm condenser so much better for recording acoustic that I wouldn't want to go large for that. Conversely vocals sound so much better with large than small. But I guess that's the case in all things - any jack of all trades will do a lot of things with no problems, but it will lack that added extra sparkle in some of those areas. I'm afraid from personal experience I can't comment on recording with a condenser microphone off the amp as living in a flat the neighbours issue means I'm recording a guitar amp from the line out with a Webber Micro Msss in the chain to shut off the speaker if any grit is needed in the sound. Good luck in your search! Mark Hi Mark Sound on Sound is still a really great source of info isn't it? It's normally my first port of call for anything technical. I can well believe that most sound engineers will use REALLY high quality condenser mics for recording a signal from an amp. I used a SE2200A for years and I used it in front of a guitar amp or speaker cab a fair bit, normally alongside an SM57. Although this SE mic is not hugely high quality it certainly handled everything I threw at it. However, I am pretty sure that you need to choose your mic with care as some clearly don't like being put in front of a guitar amp. I've never actually used a small diaphram condenser, either with an acoustic or with amps, but it's incredibly helpful to know that they do not like amps. I have looked at a few small diaphram mics over the last few days as dual purpose options so I will probably put those aside. My instinc is to go with a large diaphram condenser as this is the only type of condenser I have ever used. However, interesting that a small diaphram is a better option for an acoustic and this reinforces the view that maybe I need to buy two separate condensers for amps/cabs and for the acoustic. I might go for something like an SE X1A and see how that performs with acoustic and if I can't get a decent sound then maybe go with an additional small diaphram. It's a huge pain having to use an attenuator isn't it? I'm lucky enough not to have any real issues with noise/neighbours!!! Many thanks for the advice, really helpful to know a bit more about small diaphram mics. Cheers Guy
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Post by vikingblues on Dec 23, 2016 23:27:10 GMT
Hi Guy Agreed about attenuators. I did go through a couple of amps with built in attenuators and I hated the way they attenuated the tone as well as the volume. The Micro Mass does the attenuation in a very neutral way - it's been great value for not much money. Talking of Sound On Sound, here's a link to one of their articles that goes quite in depth on the subject - it may be of use. I believe the small diaphragm type of microphone is reckoned to respond well in close-miking situations to the natural transient response and dynamic character of the guitar, giving better clarity, sparkle and detail than the large-diaphragm, and with minimal distortion and colouration. Something to do with the speed with which the microphone reacts to the sound I am given to understand. But I don't have the knowledge to know if this is hogwash - I just like what my ears tell me. I did reject a pair of Oktava Mk-012s though before I found the Avantone CK-1's that I really like. But I'm sure many people prefer the sound they get from a large diaphragm .... that's the trouble with musical sound - it's all so subjective as to what is good / bad. If you do end up with two condensers like you mention it also gives the opportunity of double miking the acoustic guitar. The sound from the bridge area for example is quite different to that from the neck / body join so one microphone aimed at each of those locations gives more of a flavour of the full sound range of the guitar. Mark
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