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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 15, 2013 21:29:24 GMT
I've just returned from my son's piano exam; he's at the Conservatoire here and they have an examined concert every term, in front of all the parents and a panel of four judges. Very daunting for an eight year old.
Well, I was nervous, he wasn't.
Thirty kids played (from age six). The bad thing about it was not the playing live and being examined, but the critique from the judges in front of everyone - so many pupils crying, so many angry parents.
Had I been the teacher I would have been embarrassed, only two children played without a mistake - that is, 28 didn't know the pieces well enough to play publically. No wonder children give up if they are put in a position to feel publically humiliated.
Louis was very laid-back, I drummed it into him that he must know the piece inside out (out of my fear that he would muck up and never play again). I was dead chuffed with him. He got a "tres bien" and said he enjoyed it. (It was a night of Baroque pieces... rubato, pedals, excessive dynamics, all quite a unique approach to harpsichord pieces!)
There was one adult pupil, even she hadn't prepared well. It wasn't that they couldn't play, that was the problem, beneath the pregnant pauses, repeated phrases, was some great talent... talk about a confidence breaker. But that's the Conservatoire system.
Thankfully the system is different in the UK, which he'll be entering next year.
For me personally there is nothing worse than freezing, losing your place and feeling humiliated... so I always over prepare, even do a dummy concert (but I'm a born worrier).
What techniques do you use to enter the 'zone' and to avoid memory lapses if you have to play in front of an audience?
Jonny
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Post by Mike Floorstand on Apr 15, 2013 22:20:47 GMT
I played the same tune every day for about 11 months before my first floorspot at the local folk club, a few years ago now. So I'd say the main thing is repetition.
The main thing is repetition.
I'd also add that every guitarist I've ever seen play live has made at least one mistake during their set. I have a theory that the pros actually practice making mistakes, and how they will recover from them.
cheers
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Apr 15, 2013 22:56:22 GMT
Everyone, at whatever level makes at least some mistakes now and again.
The mistakes are always more noticeable to the player than the listener.
I make lots.
The crucial thing is not to let the mistake put me off, probably causing me to make more, probably worse mistakes somewhere in the notes following.
It almost seems a cop out, (and it's not an excuse for skimping on preparation) but by accepting the fact that, no matter how much I prepare I will make mistakes, (and that most people won't notice most of them,) I believe I am calmer and tend to make fewer mistakes than when I am worrying about making mistakes.
But I still make mistakes.
Does that make sense? Maybe. (“ I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant”)
Keith
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 16, 2013 5:19:23 GMT
I guess there's a difference between playing for an audience and playing for judges... as you say, Jonny, the conservatoire system is very pressured and pupils have to be extremely technical.
Not much use to your Louis, but I find I get into the zone after about 4 Guinness... not that I'm sure what zone it is, nor remember it afterwards!
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Post by jackorion on Apr 16, 2013 6:21:31 GMT
I think the key is practice and lots of it...
Although I'm not playing gigs at the moment, when I was I would play my entire setlist from beginning to end every day. I would even rehearse some of the inbetween song stories/banter so I always had something to fall back on.
This meant that I knew the songs so well that the last thing I had to worry about was the songs themselves - I could be concerned with performance, and adjusting my setlist to the gig, or pointing out the guy in the funny hat to get a laugh etc etc.
That was also the reason I very early decided not to worry about getting a perfect acoustic guitar sound, and I just used a Fishman sound hole pickup - reliable, consistent, feedback resistant, and easy to use. Therefore I didn't have to worry about the sound and could just get on with it...
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Apr 16, 2013 7:33:26 GMT
There was an interesting "Horizon" programme a few weeks back about the brain and creativity/intuition. As part of it they were trying to see what gave musicians the ability to freely improvise and found that it was linked to the part of the brain that keeps us in check in social situations - watching our manners and what we say so that we don't say stupid things. Musicians who could fluently improvise somehow manage to switch off these controls. I suspect that this is part of being "in the zone" and "on the edge" - you aren't thinking and fearing. As soon as I start to "think" when I'm playing that's usually when it all goes wrong. You certainly need to have put in the hours and practice to have the tune/song in your fingers and in your head but the best performances come when you get into that "zone". The other thing to remember is that the vast majority of the audience wouldn't recognise or notice a mistake - especially in an instrumental - unless it is catastrophic. They don't know the piece the way you do and if it's played or sung with the right feel and emotion that's what they will remember and focus on. A good performer will react to mistakes in a way that makes them sound part of the piece. If you are that bothered then just play jazz This works for recordings too - I used to re-record until the notes were perfect and edit but now I don't anymore. These takes tended to be note perfect but sound soulless so now I'll go with a recording that has the emotion and a few slight fluffs every time. Emotion and communication are the heart of what musical performance is about for me. Everyone, at whatever level makes at least some mistakes now and again. Some of the best people - and tunes - were made by mistakes
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Post by Martin on Apr 16, 2013 7:57:03 GMT
If I was to edit out all my mistakes, my recordings would all be less than a minute long!
The key must be practice - I'm not sure I agree with a theory that I used to see a lot more: You can practise too much. I think I practise a fair bit, but still have very little I would consider confident of performing (without major errors) in front of people.
In my own case, it's probably trying to play things that I like the sound of - these are invariably way beyond my technical ability, so I'm always playing them 'on the edge' where mistakes are much more likely, and which make them almost impossible to pull off well in public.
Practising complete set-lists every day including banter seems like the perfect way for a gigging musician to prepare, and the idea of pro's practising recovering from mistakes isn't that far fetched to me.
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Post by dennis on Apr 16, 2013 8:30:27 GMT
I'm forever making mistakes but I've now become a bit of an expert at covering them up!!! The worse thing to do is to stop, if you just carrying on playing the chances are that nobody will notice. I can practice a song over and over again just before a gig and then go on stage and make a balls up of it! I've just learnt to disguise the fact that I've mucked it up. Oddly enough I tend to make more mistakes at small clubs with a small audience rather that on stage at a big event. It's probably because I'm aware that I'm in a closed environment with all eyes on me. There was one occasion when I forgot the lines to a song and just ad libbed. But what I sang spontaneously was actually better than the original lyric so it became the permanent replacement line to the song! Dennis
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Post by Phil Taylor on Apr 16, 2013 8:36:03 GMT
What Dave says about thinking strikes a chord with me - excuse the pun Although I don't play live I find doing recordings difficult and it is when I start to think - I'm doing alright here, not far to go now, this is the best so far etc etc - then the cock-ups come. I have tried mentally preparing but to no avail - the 'muscle memory' simply dissapears Phil
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Post by scripsit on Apr 16, 2013 8:51:02 GMT
When I was young and played in bands there were two basic strategies:
drink, before and after each set
if an obvious mistake was made, glare at the bass player.
I haven't gigged since doing the solo acoustic thing, but I have awful problems with recording some days: getting over-conscious of slight issues (squeaks and minor flubs) and then too much concentration on not making a mistake and then a wooden performance. The two strategies are no use in this situation.
I think Dave's solution is the only one: try to ignore mistakes and get a feel/groove going.
I suspect this is one of those things that improves when you do it lots. Hopefully, not only after 10,000 hours.
Kym
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Post by brianr2 on Apr 16, 2013 11:42:44 GMT
I find this thread strangely reassuring. It is good to know, in the words of Mumford et al, that "you are not alone in this".
I am very much with Dave: emotion trumps all. When playing, it is easy to forget that the whole is more than the sum of the parts. A few fluffs and unintended rubato (my specialty!) , can amount to more than sterile technical precision.
Yesterday I watched the reissued "Acoustic Routes" DVD, which I enjoyed enormously. There was a wonderful exchange between Bert Jansch and Brownie McGhee with a nice point in relation to this discussion. Brownie said something to the effect that "two wrongs don't make a right....unless they are together....if Sonny [Terry] played a wrong chord, so did I". Sometime the spontaneity of plastering over the cracks can produce a better finish than the original.
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Post by jonnymosco on Apr 16, 2013 12:15:37 GMT
Great responses... I think the term "mistake" will have to be redefined as "creative playing".
Louis impressed me in that when he played a note "creatively" he just carried on... the others had been taught to stop and start the phrase again.
There is also a world of difference between playing at home and playing in front of an audience; like Dave says switching off those "controls" helps when playing live and I suppose those controls are triggered in front of an audience... if it takes four Guinesses, then that's what it takes.
Personally it's practice and more practice, then it's playing live as often as possible which alleviates the pressure of one solitary big, important gig. I also recall memories whilst playing that take me out of the performing situation and helps me to relax.
I avoid gigs where the listeners are hanging on every note... I mean, I find gigs where I know people aren't really going to listen.
Jonny
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Post by ararat66 on Apr 16, 2013 12:46:04 GMT
Boy does that statement make me feel better - it is perhaps more a tribute to all the stupid things I have said and done than anything else :-)
Leon
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Post by markthomson on Apr 16, 2013 17:06:48 GMT
Some great responses, the one thing that resonates with me most is learning to play through mistakes, even having a chuckle when you make a bad one, as the audience will generally not notice minor ones and may laugh with you if it's a big clanger.
The other thing is to be musical even if that results in some rough edges, it will always sound better than a flawless mechanical performance, the audience will value your musicality over technical ability, though doing both is even better!
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Post by calv on Apr 18, 2013 8:12:22 GMT
My daughter froze at a talent contest at school last year, she was doing guitar and vocals with a song that she new backwards. She'd rehearsed it so many times, in front of family too. She just clammed up and forgot the lyrics when in front of an audience.
She did go out of the room a bit upset, but she was given the opportunity to do it again. Luckily she took it and finished her piece. Just a couple of minutes made the difference between her feeling good at the end and feeling crap because she'd left on a bad note.
The judges were good though, and weren't too critical. I think constructive criticism it great at the right time, but at a young age and in front of people, maybe not the place. It's that kind of thing that can put people off performing again.
Calv.
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