Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Nov 28, 2017 21:32:10 GMT
As if the long-standing issues with my Lowden G9 weren't enough to push me over the edge, my S25 has decided to play up. I've been noticing for a while that the 5th and, especially, the 6th strings have been lacking bite, sounding dull and kind of "thuddy", even when plucked with a light gauge thumbpick. I thought at first it was duff strings so I tried some Newtone Masterclass 80/20's. No improvement. I've just fitted some Phosphor Bronze 12's and again they're sounding quite dead. They're not ringing at all.
I'm wondering if this could be down to sub-optimum humidity somehow affecting the tone. For the last few months I've been keeping my guitars in a (very expensive) rack instead of the case and, thinking back, the problem does seem to coincide with this.
Any other suggestions (apart from dump my Lowdens in the nearest skip?).
|
|
|
Post by dobro on Nov 29, 2017 0:17:38 GMT
You could dump them in my back yard. No, seriously, I really feel your frustration.Maybe a professional set-up would solve the problem..and keep us updated about the G9.Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by oustudent on Nov 29, 2017 7:01:19 GMT
Frequently happens to me, one minute they are great and the next I hate the sound. I think it is a combination of the environmental conditions and your state of mind and body at the time you pick up the guitar. Some days it just does not work for some reason and then you start to look for excuses as to why it does not sound right. I think it will pass but it is also a good opportunity to test out some new strings, that is a process which is always under review with me. I use Newtone strings, Light with a 54 for short scale and alight with a 52 for long scale. I just bought some of their 80/20 's to try. I also like the DR rare as a fall back when things are not sounding right.
J
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Nov 29, 2017 8:05:57 GMT
do you know what the humidity is where the guitars are kept?
High humidity can make guitars sound a bit dull or stuffy. The other thing to check is what the relief is like in the neck - if it's not got enough relief that can inhibit the vibration of the string stopping it ringing out.
Then there's the human factor - I would hazard a guess that you're super sensitive about your guitars at the moment given the trouble the G9 gave you, and I think when you're in that frame of mind you start to hyper-notice things.
For example - I had a rare earth soundhole pickup put in my S25 yesterday. I'm still not 100% about it and was listening to it through my AER and really, really zooming in on the bits I didn't like and not listening to the whole picture. Then, later on, I was playing the guitar unplugged and I was doing the same thing - listening in a hyper critical manner as my brain was stuck in 'what's wrong mode?'
I've been through this before with my Fylde and some other guitars and I'm hoping to have got over it now but it still happens!
Anyway, first thing I'd do is check the humidity and get that guitar in a case
|
|
|
Post by geddarby on Nov 29, 2017 9:24:14 GMT
Andy P What has the weather been like ? I used to have an old Lowden S22c (original designation) mahogany back and sides, cedar top. When the air became heavy the guitar went dull and thumpy once the weather brightened so did the guitar. At first I thought that I was imagining things but came to realise that was just the weather and the guitar.
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Nov 29, 2017 9:54:24 GMT
Thanks guys for all those comments, you really are very kind to take the time. Yep, no doubt my state of mind is a factor here. I'm feeling very negative about these guitars just now and I can definitely be of a super-sensitive, not to say paranoid, persuasion! I think these is also another factor at play though. What I don't understand is that since moving from Cornwall to eastern Scotland my Lowdens are showing symptoms consistent with exposure to a higher humidity. The reality is the the opposite. I would say indoor averages have dropped from 60+% to around 50%. So that is baffling. The weather for the last few days has been bright - little rain and plenty of sunshine. Anyhow, no point in dwelling on the causes, I just need to counter the effects. I'm ordering a humidity control unit, maybe this one and I'll check the neck relief when I'm back home later today (good point jackorion - I'm sure you're going to love your S25!).
|
|
Phil Taylor
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,398
Mini-Profile Name Color: 680908
Mini-Profile Text Color: 121311
|
Post by Phil Taylor on Nov 29, 2017 10:28:19 GMT
Its a strange one this because humidity in my house generally varies from mid 40's up to mid 60's ish and fortunately it only seems to affect the sound slightly and not action. Myself and John chatted briefly about this at the weekend and I agree with what he says below: Frequently happens to me, one minute they are great and the next I hate the sound. I think it is a combination of the environmental conditions and your state of mind and body at the time you pick up the guitar. Some days it just does not work for some reason and then you start to look for excuses as to why it does not sound right. I think it will pass. J I am fairly certain my hearing varies throughout he day. As a rule I do keep my guitars in their cases overnight particularly in winter and touch wood don't have any problems with things moving. Having said all that the last time I got back from Spain after leaving my guitars in their cases for 6 weeks one had a buzz at the second fret on the top E and it took a couple of weeks to settle down again after leaving the guitar out most of the time. Anyway, I'm not much help really and in any case I assume all guitars are different. Hope you get it sorted Andy. Phil
|
|
|
Post by thejamsinger on Nov 29, 2017 12:53:33 GMT
Breedlover Perhaps they are homesick, missing Sunny Cornwall 😎. Only joking. I would say temperature has a lot to do with it. Try leaving it out for a few days let it settle then give it a go. I only put mine in the case when I take it somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by jackorion on Nov 29, 2017 13:06:22 GMT
Breedlover Perhaps they are homesick, missing Sunny Cornwall 😎. Only joking. I would say temperature has a lot to do with it. Try leaving it out for a few days let it settle then give it a go. I only put mine in the case when I take it somewhere. I know everyone's thoughts on 'in the case, on the wall' etc etc are different but I've always kept my guitars in their cases when they're not being played and I've never had humidity issues, despite the humidity getting up to 80% where I live on occasion. When I worked in a guitar shop we had countless guitars come in that were all swollen from high humidity and, without fail, they were always guitars that weren't kept in cases. 9 times out of 10 we would dry the guitars out, and tell the customer to keep the guitar in its case and they didn't have any more problems - the 1 times out of 10 when customers insisted on keeping their guitars out on stands or on the wall was always the 1 time they had more problems. Every manufacturer recommends keeping your guitar in it's case
|
|
|
Post by jangarrack on Nov 29, 2017 13:59:30 GMT
This is turning out to be a really interesting thread for me as I live in a high humidity area and my guitars are almost always hanging on the wall....... so now now I'm a bit worried. Our part of Cornwall can be pretty damp at thes best of times, but also our house is in a valley with a stream just past the end of the garden, all of which probably does not help. We used to run dehumidifiers to keep humidity and condensation at bay, so at that time I used to keep my guitars in their cases. However, a couple of years ago, we had a positive pressure ventilation system or PIV fitted in the loft which continuously circulates filtered fresh air around the house and which also heats it when outside temperature drops to around 10°-12°. Unlike the dehumidifier, the drying out effect is whole house rather than localised and consequently our indoor humidity has dropped considerably, usually in the 40% range whereas before it was usually high 60s or more.
Once we had what I thought was reasonable and consistent indoor humidity, I thought it would be safe to to keep my guitars out on their wall hangers, but after reading this thread, I'm not sure. The only thing I have ever noticed leaving them out is a very slight increase or decrease in string action at odd times, but never really enough to alarm me.
I would be grateful for any further comments or guidance on this as I like having my guitars always quickly and easily accessible, but not enough to risk any damage to them.
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,544
Member is Online
|
Post by davewhite on Nov 29, 2017 15:36:00 GMT
I would be grateful for any further comments or guidance on this as I like having my guitars always quickly and easily accessible, but not enough to risk any damage to them. Get a hygrometer and calibrate it. When it's calibrated put it in the room where you have your guitars and take readings every hour or so for few weeks to see just how much variability in humidity occurs in the room. Then you can decide if you need to put in place any additional measures. Hygrometer calibration is pretty simple. Get a ziplock bag that your hygrometer will fit into and a bottle cap or something similar that will hold some salt. Fill the bottle cap with salt, wet the salt so that the mixture will move slightly in the cap, put the cap and hygrometer in the bag and seal it. Then leave it overnight and check the reading in the morning - it should show 75.3%. I use cheap analogue hygrometers in my workshop and house that have the screw on the back for adjustment and calibrate them every few weeks. You can use different salts that have different RH readings - as I need to brace and close the box up at between 40-50% humidity I calibrate with potassium carbonate instead of salt (sodium chloride) as this stabilises at 43.16% relative humidity - the technique is exactly as I described above. It's good practice to calibrate your hygrometer every couple of weeks or so.
|
|
|
Post by oustudent on Nov 29, 2017 17:05:37 GMT
Interesting Phil that you keep your guitars in their cases, you know what they say - guitars in cases don't get played. But we know that isn't the case with you.
I prefer to have them out of the case all of the time, they get played more and they are at more or less kept at a constant temperature and humidity level.
J
|
|
Andy P
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,982
My main instrument is: Taylor 312ce, Guild D25, Deering 5 string banjo
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"8e2be1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 060607
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0b0b0c
|
Post by Andy P on Nov 29, 2017 17:56:45 GMT
Thanks for the further comments folks and interesting to read the different takes on this mix of real causes and effects and the mind playing tricks. Looking at it as objectively as I can, I do believe that humidity issues are affecting the action on the G9 and the tone on the S25 (the action on which has remained within very acceptable parameters since its last set-up last February). I bought a rack as I felt it would lead me to playing my guitars more often. That sure worked - I'm forever picking one up and noodling away when I really should be doing something else. But like I said, this seems to have coincided with issues with the Lowdens - not my Guild and Breedlove incidentally but they are very different - and cheaper - instruments. So I've ordered the Planet Waves Humidipacks and I'll keep the guitars in their cases and see how we go. jangarrack if you've not noticed any problems with how your guitars play or sound, I really don't think you need to worry.
|
|
|
Post by robmc on Nov 29, 2017 18:32:46 GMT
My guitars stay in their cases for the most part. Must be something to do with the environment... Can't blame this one on fake news. If you have a solid wall house keep them in a first floor room not facing prevailing winds, should avoid rising and penetrating damp. If it's a modern house make sure the room is well vented, surprising how quickly things can get damp and RH can intermittently rise and fall. Higher RH definitely has a dampening effect on my little buggers
|
|
|
Post by thejamsinger on Nov 29, 2017 19:47:57 GMT
Breedlover Have you tried speaking to Lowden. I like the look of Lowdens and have been considering buying on but based on what I’ve read on the forum they sound like very temperamental guitars.
|
|