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Post by andyhowell on Mar 31, 2018 13:34:42 GMT
Here is fan fret video!
This is about as much as I know. No doubt one of our luthiers or players (obsessives) will be along to put me right where I have got it wrong. Anyhow, this is how it seems to me!
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Mar 31, 2018 14:59:27 GMT
I really enjoy this sort of video Andy and this is very good and informative. Phil
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 31, 2018 15:27:39 GMT
Ben WALKER Keith (pedantic, picky friend )
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Post by andyhowell on Mar 31, 2018 16:17:58 GMT
Ben WALKER Keith (pedantic, picky friend ) Strangely enough I was thinking of you :-) Knew I had Ben right! SaveSave
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,487
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 3, 2018 10:48:31 GMT
I suspect I was that bounder
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 3, 2018 15:50:30 GMT
I suspect I was that bounder Hmm, you were not amongst my suspects :-) SaveSave
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
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Posts: 3,544
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Post by davewhite on Apr 3, 2018 16:24:21 GMT
Andy, Nice video - interesting and informative. A few "picky" points. "Some of us luthiers" call it multi-scale because it is a more accurate description but mainly because Ralph Novak has a copyright on the term "fan fret". Secondly having the longer bass string scale length doesn't give you "more string tension" as such. String tension is determined by the strings active length, the string's mass and the note it is tuned to. So if you lengthen the active length of a string and keep it tuned to the same note then it's tension will increase. BUT if you tune the string down then the tension could go up, down or stay the same depending on the change in active length you choose. If you are going to tune the lower strings down (as in a lot of G, C and D tunings) then you can keep the strings tension at a similar level by either putting on a heavier string or increase the active string length to keep the tension the same or similar. To me this is the main advantage of the longer bass scale on multi-scale as the "feel" of the strings is important to a lot of players and heavier gauge strings don't have the same feel. You can play your dropped tunings with the same gauge of strings you normally would use and similar string tensions. You could make the same argument about the first couple of strings for these tunings but I think I agree with the argument that keeping a more standard scale length with the unwound strings does give a "sweeter" treble sound than with a longer scale and a lot of melodic playing along and across these strings takes place in fingerstyle and song accompaniment in these tunings where the shorter scale helps with the playing. Personally I also feel more comfortable in terms of string feel in going up a gauge with unwound strings. Lastly you don't have to change the bracing for a multi-scale. The first one I made "Lughnasa" started off as a 650mm "equal scale length" guitar-bouzouki commission that developed a small split in the rear edge of the soundboard after the box was closed. I re-topped it but removed the braced old top carefully as the sound and feel of it was so good and used it as my first foray into multi-scale making as a guitar with the bracing as it was. The top inlays were "creative" ways of covering over some of the small damage that occurred with the splits and removal of the top. This guitar has been the favourite of mine a for a lot of people that have played it. This has 630-659mm scale lengths: Congratulations on pronouncing "De Faoite" more accurately than most that attempt to
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 3, 2018 17:26:47 GMT
Thanks Dave. As informative as ever.
I’ll risk the legal action with fan fret :-)
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
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Posts: 3,544
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Post by davewhite on Apr 3, 2018 17:31:13 GMT
Thanks Dave. As informative as ever. I’ll risk the legal action with fan fret :-) You're safe - you don't make them
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 24,487
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 3, 2018 19:20:40 GMT
I suspect I was that bounder Hmm, you were not amongst my suspects :-) SaveSaveEasy way to check... was the guitar in tune? If so, it wasn’t me...
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 4, 2018 7:59:39 GMT
Ah ha — now we know that (due to intonation) there is no true tuning, you won't get off that easy !!! SaveSave
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Post by earthbalm on Apr 4, 2018 10:42:25 GMT
Andy, Nice video - interesting and informative. A few "picky" points. "Some of us luthiers" call it multi-scale because it is a more accurate description but mainly because Ralph Novak has a copyright on the term "fan fret". Secondly having the longer bass string scale length doesn't give you "more string tension" as such. String tension is determined by the strings active length, the string's mass and the note it is tuned to. So if you lengthen the active length of a string and keep it tuned to the same note then it's tension will increase. BUT if you tune the string down then the tension could go up, down or stay the same depending on the change in active length you choose. If you are going to tune the lower strings down (as in a lot of G, C and D tunings) then you can keep the strings tension at a similar level by either putting on a heavier string or increase the active string length to keep the tension the same or similar. To me this is the main advantage of the longer bass scale on multi-scale as the "feel" of the strings is important to a lot of players and heavier gauge strings don't have the same feel. You can play your dropped tunings with the same gauge of strings you normally would use and similar string tensions. You could make the same argument about the first couple of strings for these tunings but I think I agree with the argument that keeping a more standard scale length with the unwound strings does give a "sweeter" treble sound than with a longer scale and a lot of melodic playing along and across these strings takes place in fingerstyle and song accompaniment in these tunings where the shorter scale helps with the playing. Personally I also feel more comfortable in terms of string feel in going up a gauge with unwound strings. Lastly you don't have to change the bracing for a multi-scale. The first one I made "Lughnasa" started off as a 650mm "equal scale length" guitar-bouzouki commission that developed a small split in the rear edge of the soundboard after the box was closed. I re-topped it but removed the braced old top carefully as the sound and feel of it was so good and used it as my first foray into multi-scale making as a guitar with the bracing as it was. The top inlays were "creative" ways of covering over some of the small damage that occurred with the splits and removal of the top. This guitar has been the favourite of mine a for a lot of people that have played it. This has 630-659mm scale lengths: Congratulations on pronouncing "De Faoite" more accurately than most that attempt to It's a very beautiful looking guitar.
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Post by oustudent on Apr 6, 2018 9:36:14 GMT
Very good summary, many thanks
J
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